Interview with Emma Crowe on ABC Radio Sydney

INTERVIEW WITH EMMA CROWE ON ABC RADIO SYDNEY

22 December 2025

Subjects: Bondi vigil, Royal Commission, antisemitism, PM’s leadership

E&OE………

Emma Crowe

Andrew Bragg is a Liberal Senator for New South Wales and is here now. Good morning, Senator.

Senator Bragg

Emma, good morning.

Emma Crowe

Thanks very much for being here. Why do we need a Royal Commission of Inquiry? Why does it need to be a Commonwealth one?

Senator Bragg

Well, this has been the first religious-based massacre in Australia's history. If you don't have a Royal Commission into this, I'm not sure what you would in the future. This has been a massive failure of leadership and of the security agencies of the nation to have allowed this to happen. I think we need to get to the bottom of this. It shouldn't preclude us from getting on with other immediate actions, but I would have thought that it would be a disgrace to the memory of the people who were slain to not have the strongest possible inquiry.

Emma Crowe

Why is a state-based inquiry not enough? The Prime Minister saying he'll back in the Premier, and has his full backing for a state-based Royal Commission. Why is that not considered enough?

Senator Bragg

It's the Commonwealth that has the security agencies like ASIO and the Federal Police, and it's the Commonwealth which also sets the national tone of leadership. I think it's the Commonwealth, which has a lot of questions to answer. We have been worried about the Eastern Suburbs Jewish community for some time. We sought briefings in 2024 from the government which weren't provided. I think there's a lot of things, frankly, that the Prime Minister wants to cover up. I think having his own department do the inquiry is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.

Emma Crowe

You don't think that Dennis Richardson, former boss of ASIO, is the right person to lead an inquiry to this?

Senator Bragg

I think an inquiry, which is run by the Department of the Prime Minister, is entirely an unmanageable conflict of interest. I think the Prime Minister must know that. As I say, it is offensive to the memory of the people who were slain, that we wouldn't have the strongest possible inquiry to get to the bottom of the failings. I mean, Islamophobia has been used as a bit of a fudge over the last two years by this government. I worry that that has meant that there's been a focus taken off antisemitism. So what we need to do is to get a Royal Commission to get to the bottom of what went wrong and where.

Emma Crowe

So it’s interesting talking about the Royal Commission and the terms of reference there to include antisemitism. Antisemitism is an international problem. It's been going for thousands of years. It's terrible. It's terrible, and nobody would disagree with that. Where does an inquiry begin and end when you're trying to drill down on something as, I suppose, intangible in lots of ways as antisemitism?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think that the environment for these attacks to happen was in part created by the failure to clamp down on the hateful speech, the threatening speech, the symbols, all the other things that happened after the October 7 attacks on Israel. We saw with the Harbour Bridge march, pictures of the Ayatollah and chants talking about the erasure of Israel. Basically, things which have threatened violence against Jews have now been put into action. The fact that this was allowed to happen, and there was this constant equivocation and constant fudging of antisemitism is the same as Islamophobia. I think that's something that we also want to make sure we get to the bottom of because Because that has, I think, unfortunately helped create the environment for these attacks.

Emma Crowe

Racism and hate, it unfortunately touches a lot of groups in our society. You can see where the government might have been going with putting a special commission.

Senator Bragg

How many Australians are living in cages like the Jews?

Emma Crowe

Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but there are many groups in our society who are victims of incredible levels of hate. You can see why the government might have also set up a Commissioner for Islamophobia and people being, hatred going that way as well. Why is that a problem?

Senator Bragg

It's a question of degree, isn't it? I do understand what your point is, but it's a question of degree. The idea that there's an equivalence between antisemitism, Islamophobia, Aboriginal issues, it's just not the case. If you go to the event at Bondi last night, you’ve got snipers on the roof. People are so desperate to kill Jews, apparently, that we to have snipers on roofs like we're living in America. This has been the case for a couple of years. It has been great community concern in the Eastern Suburbs and the Sydney Jewish community that they were sitting ducks. We've tried to get information. We've tried to raise it with the government. We haven't been successful. I think the risk is this approach with the fox and the hen house is that there's a massive cover up, and we don't get to the bottom of it. I think Australians deserve better. This is the first time we’ve ever had a religious massacre like this in this country. We want it to be the last time.

Emma Crowe

Senator Andrew Bragg is here. He's the Liberal Senator for New South Wales. He says a Commonwealth Royal Commission is what is required now. The Commonwealth can only explore what's happened at a Commonwealth level. A lot of the things that need to be looked into will include responses from different state agencies and policing, different levels of support within New South Wales and the agencies that the state government's in charge of. Wouldn't a Commonwealth Royal Commission not be able to touch those things in the way it should?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think a Commonwealth Royal Commission can look at a lot of the agencies under the purview of the Commonwealth, the Federal Police, ASIO. I think those are not things that the State can do in any event. I would have thought at the most basic level, the failure to have prevented this attack, the failure to have stopped these people from going into Bondi with these guns at some level is a necessary part of the inquiry, which I think only the Commonwealth can do.

Emma Crowe

The terms of reference for you would include those security failures at all different government levels, as well as antisemitism more generally. The government did appoint a special envoy to combat antisemitism, and her report is in. I know that on the other side, you do hear people say, 'we know the report's in. This work is underway. We need to get on with the work that we've already started'. Could a Royal Commission delay that by going back to an inquiry mode? Then people will have to say things like, 'I've got to wait for the results of the Royal Commission before putting things into action'?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think the point is that you could get on with the Segal review. There's some additional things that Sussan Ley has also articulated that we should get on with. But the inquiry will get into the basics of what happened at Bondi, as well as the broader issues to do with antisemitism, I think you can walk a chew gum. I think the fact that the Prime Minister has not committed to this Commonwealth Royal Commission, I think, frankly, shows that maybe he hasn't learned. These issues require him to be the best possible leader he can be. Now, I think Chris Minns has shown in New South Wales that he's provided authentic and decent leadership. I think the Prime Minister could learn a lot from Chris Minns.

Emma Crowe

Liberal Senator for New South Wales, Andrew Bragg, is here. I suppose a few people on the text line are saying, after Port Arthur, we saw a bipartisan approach, and people are not liking the idea that politics is coming up. It's a difficult time for Australia. Is this not the time for solidarity? It's only a week in. Maybe the government would come to the position that a Royal Commission is what's required. Maybe the Prime Minister would speak to the Premier, and over time, that's what they would come to. Is it right that members of the different political side should be out there? You've actually accused the government of a possible cover-up. That's a pretty big call to make on the radio when an inquiry isn't in place, to say the reason someone doesn't want an inquiry is because there's a cover up. Don't you think the community deserves more of a bipartisan approach right now?

Senator Bragg

Look, it's a good question. The thing is that there's no precedent here. Port Arthur and the other massacres were not religious massacres. I mean, this thing against the Jews of Bondi is new in Australia. We've never had anything like it before. We've been warning for years that the government needs to take this more seriously. As I said before, the government has always tried to fudge this with talking about Islamophobia and other things. They sat on this report from Jillian Segal for months. They haven't shown the necessary action and leadership that was necessary to protect the Australian Jewish community, which is a minority interest in Australia. That's why we are pushing hard, because we can't afford to risk this happening again. We're not the government, but our job is to try and protect minority interests in Australia. That's what our job is right now. I understand that for some people, some of this is jarring. But the thing is that this has been a failure of leadership, so there must be a political response. If there was no political response, then we will be no longer living in a democracy.

Emma Crowe

How do you, I suppose, marry up this idea of... You're saying it's about accountability. We also have the Jewish community saying it's time to move forward. We love compassion. That's what people are wanting to hear from the leaders - a united front. Is there not a way to do this more gently?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think at the Bondi vigil last night, David Ossip from the New South Wales Board of Deputies, Jewish Board of Deputies, made it very clear that the Jewish community wants a Commonwealth Royal Commission. I don't think what I'm saying is inconsistent with what the Jewish community is seeking. I think if you don't have a Royal Commission into this, then I'm not sure what you would have one into in the future. We've had them into all sorts of different things in the past, pink batts, banks, other things. I mean, you've lost 15 people here - because they were Jews - at a beach.

Emma Crowe

I suppose we'll hear in the days ahead about what's next in terms of looking into this. I really appreciate getting some time with you this morning, Senator. Thank you.

Senator Bragg

Thanks a lot.

[Ends]

Media Contact | 0401 392 624

‍