Interview with Sally Sara on ABC Radio National

Sally Sara

Andrew Bragg is the Shadow Minister for Housing and Homelessness and joins me now. Andrew Bragg, welcome back to Breakfast.

Senator Bragg

Hi, Sally. Happy New Year.

Sally Sara

You, too. Just to begin with on a separate issue, former Prime Minister, Scott Morrison has waded into the social cohesion conversation overnight. Speaking at an anti-Semitism conference in Israel, he urged Muslim leaders to accredit preachers, to translate religious teachings into English, and to clamp down on links to foreign Islamist groups. Do those ideas have merit, in your view?

Senator Bragg

Look, I think the Australian Muslim community has to take some responsibility for the behaviours we've seen exhibited over the last couple of decades. Unfortunately, it has been a pattern of behaviour that some of these smaller incidents, and now we've had a significant terrorist incident have emerged from these communities. So I think there are elements there that have been identified that are worth looking at. But there's also, I think, a role for the government in making sure that the money isn't actually going to get to these hate preachers, whether we look at debanking them or other things - I think that's another piece of work we need to look at very closely.

Sally Sara

So in your view, looking at some of these specific ideas, should Muslim preachers need to be accredited or registered, in your view?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think it's a worthwhile discussion to have because we have to make sure that we are not in a situation where religious teachings are inciting violence. Now, I'm not a deeply religious person, but my rudimentary understanding of religion would be that you wouldn't seek to murder other citizens. And unfortunately, there has been a mutation of Islam in Australia and other Western countries where they have sought to kill other citizens, not just Jewish people, but other citizens. I think that's something that needs to be completely removed from our society.

Sally Sara

Shouldn't offences be dealt with under the criminal law system rather than targeting one particular religion? Or do you think that preachers or faith leaders from all religions should have to be registered or accredited?

Senator Bragg

Well, you want everything to be neutral, of course. But in this case, as I said, we have had, unfortunately, a problem where a lot of these extremes statements and extreme acts are coming from one particular part of our society. We're very proud to be a diverse community in Australia, but we have to be honest and open when there are problems. That's also part of being in a democracy.

Sally Sara

We know that there have been other cases of violence linked to religion. So thinking about cases like the shooting at Wieambilla, also an Australian who carried out the massacre at a mosque in Christchurch. Why do you think it should be the Muslim faith and Muslim preachers who are targeted?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think it's about anyone who is promoting incitement of violence. And that's why I say to you that there is more we can do to ensure that money doesn't flow to these particular organisations and preachers. I think the idea that there are people who can get access to Australian bank accounts, they're able to funnel money from overseas organisations, perhaps from Iran. I think there's more we should do there, and we should be very and honest about the state of the problem and as I said before, unfortunately, there's only one group of Australians who are living in cages, effectively, and that is Australian Jews. We have to be honest about the source of these problems.

Sally Sara

Should other faith leaders have some form of registration in your view? We know that there's been enormous damage done to the community previously under child sexual abuse controversies within the Christian churches.

Senator Bragg

Of course, but I'm not going into this false equivalent stuff. We've had a massive religious massacre in Australia, where people who were adherents of a mutation of Islam have decided they wanted to kill Jews, and they were so desperate to kill Jews - and that is a problem we now have in Australia. We're having a Royal Commission into it and I think we should be honest about the source of the problem and we need to be doing everything we can to protect this minority group - because if one minority feels so threatened that they have to live in cages, I mean, where does it end? It never ends with the Jews.

Sally Sara

What do you make of Scott Morrison's comments that countries like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates do better than the Western World in curtailing radical political Islam?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think the West has probably been too nice for its own good. A lot of Western countries probably feel that they can't be honest and open about some of the issues. But the fact is that we have people who are our citizens who are Australian-born. One of the shooters was an Australian-born person. The other was, of course, an immigrant. You can't deport citizens, so you need to find ways to fix it. Now, you can try and cut off their money, or you can try and improve their humanity. Now, one thing you can do is to try and remove some of these teachings and preaching that seeks to murder fellow Australians.

Sally Sara

Moving to a separate issue on federal politics. Will there be a Liberal leadership spill in the coming weeks, in your view?

Senator Bragg

Look, I don't know. But I'd say that in relation to this topic, I don't think we would have had a Royal Commission announced if it wasn't for Sussan Ley. I think she did an incredible job after the terrorist attack in making sure that the government found its moral compass and actually put in place a process which we hope will get to the bottom of these matters. I think she's shown very good leadership in relation to that matter in particular over the past month or so.

Sally Sara

Have you received any contact from your colleagues gauging your support on any potential leadership challenge?

Senator Bragg

Look, people are always talking in politics, but I haven't received any serious request to do anything from colleagues at this stage. Look I mean being Opposition Leader is probably the worst job in Australia. I think it's been a particularly difficult six months or so for Sussan. As I say, I think we can be grateful that we now have a serious investigation into these matters through a Royal Commission, I think because of her advocacy and being so strong.

Sally Sara

Many communities in Victoria have been dealing with bushfires and other emergencies at the moment. Who is the Coalition's spokesperson for emergency management?

Senator Bragg

Well, as you know, the Coalition collapsed last week, and so there will be announcements about who will be the Liberal Party's Shadow Cabinet soon. I imagine the National Party, if they want to, will have their own spokespeople.

Sally Sara

You're listening to Radio National Breakfast, and my guest is the Shadow Minister for Housing and Homelessness, Andrew Bragg. Earlier this week, you wrote in The Australian that the opposition's internal cohesion problems are letting Australians down. Can you explain what you meant by that?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think we feel bad that this bad government should have been held to account more strongly because as we see in today's papers, there's a massive Budget black hole. I think small business is underwater. We've had a lot of problems in this country, which Australians are very frustrated about and our job is to be an effective opposition that holds them to account. If you are beset with internal problems, it's very hard to do that. Now, I think we have an opportunity to refresh, and I expect that we'll do a better job of that in 2026.

Sally Sara

As we've been doing this interview, we're getting some text messages through on our text line. One says, Hi, Sally. In relation to Andrew Bragg's comments about the whole Muslim community taking responsibility for Bondi, if we could take this logic further, does that mean the Christian community should take responsibility for Nazi hate speech? What do you think of that message?

Senator Bragg

Well, I understand the point, but I think that what I'm trying to say is that we've got to be honest about the source of these problems. I mean, it is a mutation of Islam, which is leading to terrorism. I'm not going to pretend that's not the case.

Sally Sara

Could there be damage to social cohesion if there's a blanket rule for the Muslim community rather than ASIO or other investigators tracking preachers of concern?

Senator Bragg

It's not a blanket rule and 99.9% of Australian Muslims are fantastic citizens. But the role of leadership is being honest about when you have problems. I'm being frank with you and saying, well, this is a mutation of Islam, which is leading to now the deaths of our fellow citizens. We need to do everything we can to stop that. I mean, otherwise, we would be derelict in our duties. One of the things I think we've had a problem with over the last two years is we've had a massive explosion of anti-Semitism. Every time a Labor Party politician has been asked about it, they said; well, there's also a massive problem with Islamophobia. But as I say, it is only Australian Jews that have had to live in cages, and it's largely because of this mutation of Islam.

Sally Sara

Andrew Bragg, we'll need to leave it there. Thank you for your time this morning.

Senator Bragg

Thanks, Sally. See you.

Sally Sara

That's Andrew Bragg there, the Shadow Minister for Housing and Homelessness.

[Ends]

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