Interview with Sally Sara on ABC Radio National

INTERVIEW WITH SALLY SARA ON ABC RADIO NATIONAL

7 August 2025

Subjects: Artificial intelligence, Labor’s obsession with regulation, copyright laws, Labor’s housing failures, work from home

E&OE………

Sally Sara

The debate over how artificial intelligence is regulated in Australia continues to build. Ahead of the Treasurer's Productivity Roundtable, the Productivity Commission has warned that over regulation could stifle billions of dollars in economic potential and productivity growth. It's urging the federal government to take a light touch on regulating the technology. Senator Andrew Bragg is the Shadow Minister for Productivity and Deregulation and the Shadow Minister for Housing and Homelessness, and joins me now. Senator, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

Andrew Bragg

Morning, Sally. How are you?

Sally Sara

Very well, thank you. Is the Coalition comfortable with potential job losses associated with AI if it means that productivity can be increased?

Andrew Bragg

Well, Sally, the context for this is that AI is going to change the world as we know it significantly, including employment arrangements. Under Labor, we have one of the most heavily regulated economies on the planet now, and that is hurting our ability to attract investment and new jobs, and it's hurting our productivity. And so, we need to avail ourselves of new technologies like AI in a sensible and prudent way.

Sally Sara

This week, the former Industry Minister, Ed Husic, publicly backed the creation of a dedicated Artificial Intelligence Act. What do you think of that?

Andrew Bragg

Of course he did, of course he did. I mean, this guy and the government are obsessed with new rules and regulations, and they have killed productivity in Australia. Their only solutions have been to increase the size of the government sector and the non-market sector, and you can see that in the employment growth. And so, the answer here is not more rules and regulations. I mean, the idea of indulging these people and these ideas in the age of the internet, and the age of ubiquitous technology, changing the way that we live is just ridiculous. We've got to look to identify risks as they arise rather than try and destroy the technology through regulation. There's no way you can hold these things back.

Sally Sara

What about on intellectual property ?Scott Farquhar, the co-founder of Atlassian, is calling for an urgent overhaul of Australia's copyright rules. He says a carve out for text and data mining is needed to train language tools. This is at odds with many creative and arts groups, including the Writers Guild. I spoke earlier this morning to the CEO of the Australian Writers' Guild, Claire Pullen. This is what she had to say:

Claire Pullen [grab]

“There's a couple of databases of AI training text that you can look up. David Williamson's plays are in there. Van Badham's Book is in there. There's a range of iconic Australian works that have already been taken by these companies without paying, without acknowledgement.”

Sally Sara

Should those who create intellectual property and creative works be able to protect the ownership of that work?

Andrew Bragg

Yes, definitely, and, the rules already apply. The idea that copyright laws don't apply to AI is actually fundamentally not true. The point here is that News Limited have done a deal with Open AI, and others can do the same. Artists, media outlets need to be paid for their work.

Sally Sara

But at the moment, this theft is happening, and not a lot is being done about it. Should the laws be strengthened in this area? Even though it's intellectual property, it is property nonetheless. Someone wouldn't want their block of land taken or their car taken.

Andrew Bragg

Yeah, but Sally, this is one of the problems we have in this country. Every time something happens, people say we should have more laws. More laws is not the answer. As Julian Leeser said yesterday, who is the Shadow Attorney General, the laws already apply. So what you're effectively saying is…

Sally Sara

But they're not being applied.

Andrew Bragg

...but this is about law enforcement, isn't it? This wouldn't be the only area in Australia right now where there's no law enforcement. I know the Labor Party loves talking about new laws, and the statute books have grown to record levels under them, including 5,000 new regulations in the last Parliament, but what we're effectively needing here is better law enforcement.

Sally Sara

So for the creatives, what's your answer? Better enforcement of those laws?

Andrew Bragg

Absolutely, and I say the same thing to the victims of these latest round of financial collapses who are suffering. And there are many, many, many constituents that I have dealt with that are suffering because of the failure of ASIC to enforce the law in the financial services sector.

Sally Sara

You're listening to Radio National Breakfast, and you're hearing from Senator Andrew Bragg, the Shadow Minister for Productivity and Deregulation. Let's move on to a separate area, and that is housing. Property research firm, Cotality, has found that the building industry is stretched too thin to meet the federal government's target of 1.2 million additional homes by 2029. Is it time for the government to amend that target, or is it good to be ambitious?

Andrew Bragg

I think the government have this target; this is part of their housing accord. They have no real prospect of meeting it,and I think all they need to do is change their policies. Ultimately, they have put a lot of red tape onto the building and housing sector over the last three years, now they say they want to change course. I think it's good they want to change course, but it'll be akin to turning around the Titanic, and we're happy to help them find ways to cut red tape, and if good ideas come out of these roundtables then we'll back them.

Sally Sara

The ACTU Secretary, Sally McManus, has called for a one property limit on negative gearing tax breaks. So this morning, ACOSS, the Australian Council of Social Service, has also thrown its support behind the idea. Is the Coalition going to revisit its stance on this matter?

Andrew Bragg

Well, this is just snake oil. It's absolutely garbage. You can't find a serious independent economist who would say that that would ever solve the housing crisis. What we have is a major problem with supply. The government has presided over the largest population growth since the '50s, but also a massive collapse in housing construction. We need to see more houses built, and raising taxes on housing is not going to result in any new houses being built.

Sally Sara

The Housing Industry Association Chief Executive, Simon Croft, says Australia needs more skilled trades people if it's to have any realistic hope of meeting the housing target. The Coalition went to the last election wanting to reduce net migration. Is it time for a rethink?

Andrew Bragg

Well, he's right, but this is ultimately a question of the type of people that you're bringing in. I also think it's important that we don't beat up on migrants. I mean, it's not a good idea to say that the housing crisis is all because of migration. I mean, there are Australian factors here that have led to this. Clearly, we have had a large population surge, but I think it's pretty unfair to blame the whole thing on migrants. I guess the answer to your question, Sally, is that we need to be bringing in people who can help build houses. Under the last Parliament, when Labor was in office, we had more yoga teachers than we did builders and construction workers, so clearly we need to recalibrate that.

Sally Sara

Just finally, during the election campaign, the Coalition backed away from forcing public servants to return to the office. What's your assessment of the Victorian Government's proposal to legislate two days of work from home, if it works?

Andrew Bragg

Well, as you know, that was not well handled. My view is that work from home is very good. I do it myself, and it should be facilitated. But the Victorian Government needs to get their right constitutional advice in order, and they need to make sure that whatever they're proposing to legislate would actually work. But from our point of view,we're very happy with work from home. We think it's good. We think it can be very productive. We're very happy to facilitate it. But that's really a matter for the Victorians and their constitutional advice.

Sally Sara

Senator Andrew Bragg, thank you for your time this morning.

Andrew Bragg

Thanks, Sally.

[Ends]

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