Interview with Andrew Clennell on Sky News Sunday Agenda

Subjects: Coalition Agreement, unrealised capital gains, net zero

E&OE………

Andrew Clennell

Joining me live now is the Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg, widely tipped to be a senior frontbencher in the Shadow Cabinet. Andrew Bragg, thanks for your time. Do you think the Coalition's back on now?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think it's been an interesting week, to say the least. But I do think that what this has shown is that Sussan Ley has the capacity to steady the ship, and I think she's done a great job in the first couple of weeks in very trying professional and personal circumstances. And I know now that the negotiations between Sussan and David are continuing, and I'm optimistic of a good outcome.

Andrew Clennell

Well, I reported at the top of the program that you spoke up in the Liberal Party Room, you and others - with your concerns around the Nationals leading the Liberals in terms of policy, leading them by the nose. But that's exactly what's happened again here, isn't it?

Senator Bragg

We are strong believers that the proposals on the table in terms of a cross-subsity for the bush, equalisation policies, and technology agnostic energy generation are highly desirable. That's been a feature of the Coalition for many years, particularly in relation to equalisation policies, because we recognise that people in the bush don't have equivalent services compared to Australians living in the cities. So it's not particularly controversial for the Coalition to support policies which support the bush.

Andrew Clennell

Why did you express concerns then in the Party Room about how this looked again with the Nationals leading you into policy again?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think what's most important here is that we maintain fidelity to our core principles, which is that we don't determine the detail of policy today, two weeks or three weeks after an election. That we adhere to our long-standing policy, sorry, our longstanding principled positions, but then we'd resolve the detail subsequent to that. That's the main point.

Andrew Clennell

Well, there are reports a few Moderates, which is your faction, are concerned about fighting another election on nuclear energy, particularly given the scare campaign last time, and you'll cop another scare campaign. Is that a concern for you?

Senator Bragg

I think that all Liberals agree with the idea of technology agnostic energy generation. I think that all Liberals agree with the idea that there should be equalisation policies for regional Australians because we recognise that there is a disparity in service offering. And so I don't think that is controversial. Of course, the point you're trying to draw me on here is really one of detail, and that would be subject to a further and future Shadow Cabinet judgment.

Andrew Clennell

How do you feel about keeping the divestiture proposal for supermarkets and hardware stores?

Senator Bragg

I think for the supermarkets there's been a strong case made that in the extraordinary situation where all other competition policy options have been exhausted, that divestiture could be a last resort. But you wouldn't want to do anything that was going to damage private investment because it's on strike under this government. We have very anaemic growth. We need to see the private sector invest more, and so we wouldn't want to have any policies which damage investment, particularly any policies which increase prices for consumers.

Andrew Clennell

Do you blame David Littleproud and/or Bridget McKenzie for what happened this week?

Senator Bragg

No, I do not. I think this is always a difficult period after an election loss, and there has been some internal soul searching. But ultimately, what matters is that we have been able to resolve the issue of Shadow Cabinet solidarity. I believe we'll be able to work through the principle policy issues, in principle. And then subsequent to that, I'm optimistic that we'll be able to reorganise the Coalition in good time.

Andrew Clennell

Could Sussan Ley have handled it better? The Nationals seem to be saying she gave them too tight a deadline?

Senator Bragg

Not at all. I think Sussan has done an extraordinary job in very trying political, personal and professional circumstances. I think she has shown that she has the capacity to steady the ship. And I know that her negotiations with David are ongoing. And as I say, I'm optimistic that we can get the outcome. And the outcome we want is that we are going be an effective opposition because that's what we owe the Australian people. The Australian people need a very strong accountability framework, which is what an opposition provides in the Westminster system.

Andrew Clennell

What do you make of these reports that some Liberals were trying to see with Nationals whether they could roll Mr. Littleproud to kind of reverse the Coalition situation.

Senator Bragg

I think that's garbage, and I think that's people with too much time on their hands, perhaps. I mean, we are very much in the Liberal Party wanting to be in Coalition with the National Party because we know that's the best thing we can do for the Australian people. As I say, it would be not in the interest of the country if we didn't have an effective opposition. So, that is why Sussan and David are maintaining their ongoing dialogue with a view to reorganising the Coalition for the next Parliament.

Andrew Clennell

You sit in the Senate. Did the Jacinta Price defection encourage the bitterness in the Nationals, do you think?

Senator Bragg

Look, that's a question for the Nationals - but I'd say to you that we welcome Jacinta into the Liberal Party party room. We have a number of talented colleagues in the House and the Senate, and I'm very confident that we can hold this bad government to account. Mr. Chalmers seems to want to bring this unrealised gains tax first onto the agenda. I think he's got a massive integrity issue there. If he's serious, he should put the Prime Minister's pension and tax arrangements into the bill before the Senate. Otherwise, it's a massive conflict of interest where, effectively, he would be setting the Prime Minister's pension arrangements subsequent to the bill passing the Senate - which is an unmanageable conflict of interest.

Andrew Clennell

Yeah I will get to that in a second, but you called them a bad government. They just won 93 seats. So did the Australian people think they were a bad government?

Senator Bragg

Well, we have a lot of soul searching to do. There'll be a proper review. There's no doubt that we have had a very disappointing result, that there's more we can do on the policy side. There's more we need to do to reconnect with modern Australia, contemporary Australia, I should say. And that's all going to be in train.

Andrew Clennell

Would you like to be Shadow Finance Minister?

Senator Bragg

Look, I'll serve in whatever capacity I've been asked to. And in the past, Peter Dutton has asked me to work in the housing portfolio. I have an interest in economic issues. But ultimately, as I say, I think the idea that Jim Chalmers’ first item of business is going to be a tax on everyone, except for Mr Albanese, where he will set special arrangements for the Prime Minister is a massive integrity issue for this government.

Andrew Clennell

What's your evidence of that? What's your evidence that he'll set special arrangements? Isn't he captured by the tax? It's only State Officials who aren't captured?

Senator Bragg

No, that's not right. So, he has given himself a Regulation Making Power where he will set the Prime Minister's tax and pension arrangements after the bill has passed the Senate. Now, if he's serious about applying it to the Prime Minister, he will put the Parliamentary Scheme into the bill, before the Senate...

Andrew Clennell

Sorry, I've got to ask you. I've seen the Regs, the Draft Regs. They include what's being tested in the High Court - State Officials, State MPs, and I reported that last week. Why do you say he's going to set a regulation around the PM's tax? On what basis do you say that?

Senator Bragg

Because he's given himself a Regulation Making Power. So, the Regulations will be made after the bill is passed...

Andrew Clennell

So you think he's just going to dip in there...

Senator Bragg

I think he should be able to say how much the Prime Minister...

Andrew Clennell

You think he's just going to dip in there and say the PM is exempt from this?

Senator Bragg

No, he should be able to say how much the PM will be paying in the first year of his pension. I mean, it's not good enough for him to say “we have no idea how much the PM's pension will be” because he has actuaries working for the Treasury who could do these calculations for him. This is a massive integrity issue.

Andrew Clennell

Let me ask about, you've never really liked the superannuation system, compulsory super, on a personal basis. Do you have an issue with it attracting more tax then? For example, if they changed the policy so that it was when you drew down the money, you paid a 30% instead of a 15% tax rather than the unrealised gains part, would you consider supporting that?

Senator Bragg

I think that anything you could do to improve the tax is always worth looking at. But ultimately, the people who love the superannuation system - which are the financial institutions and the unions - should look very carefully at this because ultimately, if Chalmers is successful in passing the bill as it's currently drafted, it will destroy superannuation as their preferred savings vehicle in Australia, particularly for Millennials and Gen Zs.

Andrew Clennell

Look, I reported at the top of the show, there's a prospect of perhaps a 65% target on emissions reduction by 2035. How would you view that? Would that be something you might support?

Senator Bragg

We'd see the report and look at that as part of our review. As Sussan has said, we're looking at how we best get to net zero. Over the longer term we understand that cutting emissions as part of an international community is important, but so is reducing power prices and enhancing reliability for Australian industry and households.

Andrew Clennell

Andrew Bragg, thanks so much for your time.

[Ends]