Interview with Tom Connell on Sky News

25 July 2025

Subjects: ACTU’s views on productivity, Productivity Roundtable, Super for Housing

E&OE………

Tom Connell

Joining me now is Shadow Productivity Minister Andrew Bragg for more on this and a few other things. Thank you for your time. What do you think? Bad bosses to blame?

Senator Bragg

Well, Tom, as you know, the major productivity challenge is in the non-market sector which has gone back 6% over the last five years. And so, that in fact, is a semi-government sector where there is more unionisation. And so, I would say that, in fact, we need to make sure that the non-market sector is going to be more productive going forward. As for the market sector, if there are proposals from the ACTU and others that are going to be beneficial, then we'll look at them.

Tom Connell

So, when we think of, I mean, it's the buzzword right now, productivity, but it matters. Basically, the better we are, the more money we have per hour we put in, the wealthier we feel. It's been lagging for so long. Should everything be on the table? Maybe it is bad bosses. Would a politician dare to say it's lazy workers? Put in harder!

Senator Bragg

Well as I've said, the non-market sector of the economy is exploding. 80% of the new jobs over the past year were in the non-market sector. It is a very unproductive sector. And so that is where I think there needs to be strong focus. Even the Productivity Commission itself has said that, yes, it's a real laggard. So that is where I imagine the greatest focus will be. But it doesn't give the market sector an opportunity to not improve itself as well.

Tom Connell

So, you mentioned the Productivity Commission. So, Danielle Wood also said on working from home; one to two days maximum is the sweet spot, not more than that. That's when workers get less productive. Are you willing to wade into that area again in some form and say five days, for example, working from home, that do happen in some departments - you know we can't have this spread to the private sector. Is that something you're willing to say, or are you now gun-shy after the election?

Senator Bragg

I think we are squarely focused on how we can improve the output of the economy, so if there are ways to improve workplace flexibility, including enhancing opportunities for working from home, then that's a good idea. There's no ideological constraint here.

Tom Connell

Okay. So that means you're willing to talk about those areas, even though that topic proved an unpopular one. And you could argue maybe the way it was presented, that that proved to be an unpopular thing to pursue during the election?

Senator Bragg

Well, it's got to be about promoting flexibility. That's the key here. And we think that people who are working from home generally are able to be as productive, in some cases more productive, than otherwise. So, we're entirely relaxed about that.

Tom Connell

Okay, the roundtable is not far away. Ted O'Brien has been invited. How does that work? Are you funnelling ideas to him around housing? Are you getting something together and you release that? How are you going to approach that aspect of it because it's a huge part of the equation, isn't it?

Senator Bragg

Well, I work closely with Ted, and we've talked about the scourge of red tape. The government have put in place 5,000 new regulations in their first term. That is causing a massive amount of red tape, and damaging productivity in Australia. And so, one of the outputs from the roundtable must be a serious reduction in red tape. Now, the government say that now they don't like red tape, but their record so far has been that they have been the champions on red tape. So, we want to help the government course correct.

Tom Connell

Okay, and on the prospect of housing as well, accessing superannuation for housing, you've taken it to two elections and won neither of them. Is that gone now?

Senator Bragg

Well, I don't think that was the reason, but it's a good question. Look, I think all the demand side policies should be looked at very closely. This is predominantly a supply side problem. The government have made a terrible hash of this. Their boondoggle housing fund has had $10 billion in it, and it's built 17 houses and bought 300. And so, we understand it's a supply side challenge. So, the bulk of our policies will be on the supply side. But there is still a case for some demand side measures, but they've got to be very tailored, and you've got to be very careful with having a lot of demand side measures.

Tom Connell

Well, super was not tailored. It was pretty laissez-faire, wasn't it? Is it fair to say going to an election a third time with an access super to buy housing, is unlikely?

Senator Bragg

Well, it's all well and good to say if you've got access to the bank of Mum and Dad, but most Australians don't have that. And so super will be their largest opportunity to pull together a deposit. Of course, all Labor's demand...

Tom Connell

But there's two different schemes, one started by you, one by Labor, where you don't need to go through either of them - you know, home equity. So that's the other path, isn't it? Why not just stick with that and dump the super policy that you've had two cracks at?

Senator Bragg

Well, as I said, the state is getting bigger and bigger. The non-market part of the economy is getting bigger and bigger. Labor wants to own half your house. They want to insure all the mortgages, including the children of billionaires' houses. We don't think that's sustainable for the Australian economy and for taxpayers going forward. And so, we're open-minded about demand side solutions where people can use their own money.

Tom Connell

All right. Andrew Bragg, appreciate your time today. Thank you.

Senator Bragg

Thanks, Tom. See you.

[Ends]