Interview with Tom Elliot 3AW Mornings

Tom Elliott

Andrew Bragg, good morning.

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Senator Bragg

Tom, how are you?

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Tom Elliott

Well, I’m good. I'll be honest, I've mixed feelings about this one. Like, I have a good friend whose father was Scottish, and my friend was born with a British passport. And although he's grown up his entire life in Australia - and if you met him, you would agree that he is Australian. He actually has a British passport. Now, why he's hung on to it, I don't know, but should people like that be denied entry to a scheme like this?

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Senator Bragg

Well, the general point we've made about this 5% deposit scheme is that the Government have deployed it into a market which is very constrained, because housing supply has collapsed by 30,000 dwellings a year since they've been in office, right? So, effectively, they've uncapped the places, they have abolished the means testing, and they've opened it up to people who aren't Australian citizens. So, that—I think, on all three points, they've made a bad situation with housing much worse, and what it's actually done is pushed up prices at the entry level, as you just said in your intro. Uh, and so, it's actually making people's lives harder, not better.

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Tom Elliott

Yeah, well, I agree with that, and I think almost every first home buyers scheme we've had, whether it's cash handouts or guarantees like this, does tend to push up the price of houses in that, you know, $600,000 to $800,000 range, which is now sort of entry level. But—but if we could just focus on the non-citizens getting it, I mean, do you think non-citizens should have access to this form of welfare?

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Senator Bragg

No, I don't. And, uh, I think you want to - if you're going to have a government scheme like this, you want it to be as small as possible. You want it to be targeted and means tested. And I just think like, you know, there's a discussion to be had about what sort of programs are available to permanent residents. Permanent residents are a very important part of Australia. We've been a great migrant nation for 250 years. I'm really proud of that. But I think these programs are about Australians becoming home owners. And it should be a targeted scheme, and it should be available to Australian citizens only. I think it's very clear.

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Tom Elliott

Yeah, and we had a call, in fact, our first call today was a German man called Thomas, who's lived here for 25 years, and he still has his German, or maybe it's an EU passport. And I thought to myself, well, you've lived here for a quarter of a century. You would have thought that would be long enough to work out whether or not you want to be, you know, a full Australian, like with an Australian passport, wouldn't it?

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Senator Bragg

Well, look, I think these are conversations I've also had in my own family. I mean, I just think people should be willing to commit to Australia. We are a great migrant nation. It's something we can all be really proud of. And I think that if people become Australian citizens, then they should be able to receive a broader range of benefits. I mean, I just think like, we've got to—we've got to—I think we've got to draw the line somewhere on these things. It's very different to, you know, Medicare and welfare issues. I mean, this is about buying a house in Australia.

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Tom Elliott

Yes. And—and it's a bit about, I mean, you know, both my sets of grandparents had one house in their entire lives. They both bought during or just after World War II, and they were the houses that they died in. They never had another home. So, you can imagine if we're going to help a first home buyer, as this scheme purports to do, we're sort of saying, make a commitment. This could be the place you will live in for the rest of your life. And I feel like if that's if you're saying to people, make this commitment, they probably should be Australian citizens, shouldn't they?

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Senator Bragg

Well, as I said, we don't cast any aspersions against permanent residents. They're a very important part of Australia. But ultimately, we have to have Australian housing programs focused on Australian citizens. Because at the end of the day, although we love permanent residents, they are citizens of other countries. And I just think like, it just doesn't pass the pub test for the Australian Government to be subsidising citizens of other countries to become home owners in Australia, given how hard it is for Australians to become home owners. And—and this is one of the—yeah, go on.

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Tom Elliott

Yeah, and of course, as a politician, I don't think you can be a citizen of another country, can you?

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Senator Bragg

No, and speaking from experience, I uh certainly uh have been uh, you know, have had to take steps to ensure that I was eligible to stand for federal parliament myself.

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Tom Elliott

Okay. Just another thing on this scheme itself, I mean, you know, the housing market in Sydney and—and Melbourne, in particular, has weakened a bit recently. Is there any evidence emerging that some of these first home buyers who only have the 5% deposit are now underwater on their loans and might be struggling?

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Senator Bragg

Oh look, it's too early to say, but clearly, the Government have been desperate to peddle these 5% deposits because that's been their main housing policy, in the absence of being able to actually build houses. And now they've got, as you know, their new tax which will suppress supply by 35,000, which seems insane to me. So, look, they've peddled these things hard. The banking regulator, APRA, is trying to rein in risky lending, but Albo and his mate, uh, the Doctor, have been trying to peddle these loans. And, I think like ultimately, given the interest rates and some other factors, you might find some people in negative equity, which is not a situation we want for any Australian. I just think, you know, people should be judicious and careful in public office. I don't think these loans should have been, or these guarantees, should have been given to everyone. I think they should have been means tested, they should have been place capped, and they should have been reserved for Australian citizens.

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Tom Elliott

All right, thank you for your time. Andrew Bragg there, Shadow Minister for Housing and Homelessness.

Well, he said Albo and the Doctor. That would be the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, and the Treasurer, Dr Jim Chalmers. And apparently he likes to be called “Doctor”, you know. If you don't use the honorific, he's a Doctor of Philosophy, as in he's written a PhD, he's not a Doctor of Medicine. Although I met someone recently who also had a PhD in something non-medically related, but he—he also used the title Doctor and—and so when he was on airplanes, his boarding pass would say doctor.

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