Interview with Steve Price on the Kenny Report

Steve Price

Let's go to Canberra. The Shadow Housing spokesman Andrew Bragg joins us. Thanks for your time. I know it's been a long day in the House. Will this multi-tax hit legislation that now heads to the Senate where you are, do you think the Greens will do a deal?

‍

Senator Bragg

Well, the last thing we need is more taxes, because more taxes means we'll have fewer homes, as per the Budget papers. I have no idea what the others will do, but one thing is certain, which is that we will never support the idea that more taxes will fix a terrible situation. I mean, we have the most disgusting housing situation in this country already, where the Government are spending $80 billion to build 30,000 fewer houses a year. So, now they're proposing to build an even further 35,000 [fewer], it's just insane.

‍

Steve Price

One of the things I wanted to check with you. We keep getting the government saying, whenever they get up in Question Time to answer a question, they point at the Opposition and say, "Well, when the Opposition were in power, they did nothing, they didn't build one house." Is that true?

‍

Senator Bragg

[Laughs] Well, between 2013 and 2022, there was an average of 200,000 houses built each year in Australia. From 2022 until now, there have been 170,000 houses built each year in this country. So, that is 30,000 fewer, and that is despite an $80 billion investment by the Commonwealth Government. So, who could believe that you could spend 80 billion bucks and build 30,000 fewer houses? But as I've been saying to Katy Gallagher today, under this government, there's no guarantee that spending more money results in more stuff.

‍

Steve Price

Well, how do they get away with making that stuff up? I mean, we know that they've lied about the Capital Gains Tax changes and negative gearing. How do they get away with actually... I mean, they do it all the time about Medicare as well, accusing the Coalition of trying to dismantle Medicare, and no one seems to ever go, "Hang on a minute, that's not right."

‍

Senator Bragg

Well, we have to be strong in our advocacy that these figures are wrong. The ABS is the source of truth here, so that's where we get our information from. And we also rely on the media to do their job, and I think there's been some good reporting today out of Senate estimates, where we were able to discover last night that 51,000 non-Australians have used the 5% deposit scheme for Australians to buy their first home. So, but clearly, the government engages in mass misinformation, and we need to maintain, all the time, opportunities to remind people of the facts.

‍

Steve Price

On that, that question of the 51,000 non-Australians. So they're permanent residents, presumably awaiting or to become Australian citizens. I mean, you're going to be labelled, your side of politics is going to be labelled as attacking migrants and not wanting migrants to come to the country. Uh, should we be denying those people access to that scheme? Is that sensible policy, in your view?

‍

Senator Bragg

Well, I think it is because this is about Australians, Australian citizens, becoming home owners by virtue of using a Commonwealth Government scheme, a 5% deposit scheme. So, I don't know why the Australian Government would be supporting the home ownership ambitions of citizens of other nations. I just think you've got to draw the line somewhere. I think that's a clear way to draw the line. And this change, the 51,000, it was only changed in 2023. So they've, frankly, flooded into this system, and I just think the average Australian would look at it and think, "Well, that's surely a program reserved for Australian citizens."

‍

Steve Price

The whole thing worries me. I mean, you know, I've got two daughters. There's no way I'd be telling them to go and purchase a house with just a 5% deposit and getting a 95% loan from the bank. I mean, that's just absolute suicidal behaviour.

‍

Senator Bragg

Well, I mean, look, by definition, these are risky loans, and the problem we've had is that the government have collapsed supply by 30,000 houses a year, and then they've deployed this 5% scheme without means-testing and without place caps, in an environment where there is constrained supply. So you see higher prices at the entry level. And even with the house prices going down in some markets in some quarters over the weekend, you may have might have seen, the entry-level prices in most markets are still going up. So like, this 5% deposit scheme, I think, it started out as a small scheme, it was means-tested for low-income earners. The Government have used it, and we also found out today that they've spent $6 million of taxpayer funds to advertise it to Australians. So, look, they're good at the politics and the spin, but they're not so good at governing.

‍

Steve Price

While you're in Senate estimates, your opposite number, Clare O'Neil, the Housing Minister, who, you know, this week has been all over the shop trying to explain her own policy, I don't think she actually understands it. She was asked another question about it in the House today. Here was her response.

‍

Clare O'Neil

Can the Minister confirm the Albanese Labor Government has acted as a guarantor for 51,000 non-citizens to buy their first home? 250,000 people around this country have the keys to their first home because our government backed in their aspiration. Temporary migrants to Australia are not eligible for this program. I just want to be really clear for the Parliament about who is eligible. Australian citizens and permanent residents of our country. Permanent residents are not the cause of the challenges facing our country on housing.

‍

Steve Price

What sort of job's she doing do you think?

‍

Senator Bragg

Uh, she's had a shocker this week, I have to say. She was asked on Tuesday whether a granny flat would be subject to the new tax or not, and she said that the new tax wouldn't apply to the granny flat, in effect. But then in Senate Estimates today, the Treasury Secretary said that granny flats are out. But I guess to answer your question on this issue, I mean, the Government have decided to make this change. It was made in 2023, when Julie Collins was the Housing Minister, to admit permanent residents. I think it was a very bad judgment. Clare's only defence appears to be that people who aren't Australian citizens should have access to these kind of schemes, and I just don't think it passes the pub test.

‍

Steve Price

Her response on the granny flat reminded me of John Hewson and GST on a cake.

‍

Senator Bragg

The birthday cake. Yeah, that's right. So, look, the Government have given themselves god-like powers in this legislation. So they will be able to do whatever they want. And I think even the Greens have raised concerns about that. So, we may still be able to amend the Tax Bill to at least embed the key principles and design features in the law. I mean, otherwise, what's the point of having a Parliament if the Government just want to give themselves regulation-making powers where they can just sit and make the laws in their ministerial offices? I mean, that's not democracy.

‍

Steve Price

Senator Bragg, thanks for your time. Appreciate you coming into the studio.

‍