Interview with Patricia Karvelas on ABC Afternoon Briefing

‍Subjects: Telstra Network Outage Investigation, Market Competition and Regulation, Unemployment and Inflation, Australia-India Relations, Multiculturalism

E&OE.........

Patricia Karvelas

I want to bring in the Shadow Housing and Environment Minister, Andrew Bragg. Welcome to the program.

Senator Bragg

Good afternoon.

Patricia Karvelas

There is that breaking news, of course, police investigating, although we don't know the cause until they're able to ascertain that. Did Senator Liddle go off a little early before police were informed on this case?

Senator Bragg

Kerrynne Liddle is a very decent, very hard-working person, and I know that she would have a very good connection to her community in South Australia. I'm sure that she made the best judgement here in this particular, very sad situation.

Patricia Karvelas

You say these network outages have become the new normal under the Albanese Government. You also blamed Labor's "socialist-style approach" for a lack of market competition. Are you suggesting that there is something in the competition laws themselves that has led to what we're seeing here?

Senator Bragg

We have a sclerotic economy in this country. We have a lack of dynamism, a lack of innovation, we have super-high company taxes, we have very rigid industrial relations laws. We have more rules than you can poke a stick at. So it's very hard to get new ideas off the ground in this country, and so we're stuck with effectively the same large companies that we had about a hundred years ago, and it's not good for consumers because there are not those usual market sensors which push companies to do the right thing. These companies are not afraid of the government, it seems here, because we have regular outages now, which we didn't have in the past in this country.

Patricia Karvelas

And that's clearly on the companies, right? So how do you force them to do it? What new laws are needed? Sarah Hanson-Young says there's just not enough regulation of the telcos.

Senator Bragg

I'm sure that's not right, that more laws will help us. I am firmly of the view that more laws will not help this country. In the corporate space, ASIC has been probably the worst securities regulator in the English-speaking world. If you do a white-collar crime in Australia, you're bound to get away with it because ASIC will probably lose any pieces of paper it had in relation to those crimes, and the same can be said across the board. I don't think we take our laws seriously enough, and so this becomes a question of law enforcement, not a question of more laws.

Patricia Karvelas

Okay, so no more laws, but after this is all investigated, how about if there is a case for more laws in relation to the way this telco has operated?

Senator Bragg

Let's look at it then. But my main point is, I think this country is in decline. This is a very sad era in Australia's history. We have been completely bound up with way too many taxes, way too many laws, way too many rules and regulations. There are mandates on everything, and it hasn't made for a dynamic or innovative economy.

Patricia Karvelas

I want to change the topic to something very much in your remit. The Reserve Bank's Chief Economist says a period of higher unemployment may be needed to tame inflation. Do you support that idea that the unemployment rate needs to go up?

Senator Bragg

No, I don't want to see Australians out of work, but I do note the IMF report today which shows that we're going to have lower growth than was previously projected—less than 2%. We have now got locked in, under Labor's economy, low productivity or negative productivity in some cases. We have high inflation, high interest rates, and so for many people, they feel like they're living in a recession even though we're not in a technical recession. So the country's economy is anaemic at best.

Patricia Karvelas

Now, I'm sure you're not across all the details, but there has now been an agreement struck with India, a deeper defence agreement. Clearly, that is with an eye on China, which has been really at the centre of most of the government's activity in the Pacific and now with India. Do you welcome it?

Senator Bragg

Of course, and we welcome warm relations with India as a fellow democracy with a great common heritage, with language and other institutions. It's a great partner. We have an enormous and wonderful Indian Australian diaspora in this country as well.

Patricia Karvelas

Of course, last year there was the controversy with Jacinta Nampijinpa Price and some comments she made actually on this program in relation to the Indian community. After that, the Indian community was, as you know, quite upset. Is your party still rebuilding that relationship?

Senator Bragg

We have a good relationship with the Indian Australian diaspora. I think many Indian Australians are natural Coalition voters, and we never take that for granted, and it's important that we continue to engage with that community. Someone's racial heritage, of course, is not the determinant of their character, but I do understand that certain groups do engage with one another in a cultural sense as part of their broader duties as Australians.

Patricia Karvelas

On multiculturalism, Andrew Hastie has spoken—he also spoke on this program about a week ago—about not believing in the binary idea of a monoculture or a multiculture. A third way is how he described it. Do you agree with him on that?

Senator Bragg

I really liked his formulation. I thought it made a lot of sense to me, and it's very much in the vein of the Liberal Party's ethos—the party that abolished the White Australia policy, the party that supported multiculturalism through the Fraser government. I think that's a very welcome formulation. The key point is that anyone can be an Australian as long as you subscribe to our institutions and our ethos.

Patricia Karvelas

I've got to ask, before I let you go, a breaking story—and I still haven't heard the content in this—but Pauline Hanson has recorded a podcast with Tommy Robinson after Karl Stefanovic's infamous run-in. Is it appropriate that parliamentarians speak to someone with violent convictions?

Senator Bragg

I'm not into cancelling people. I think Pauline can speak to whoever she wants to speak to. But to make the point, most workers in Australia today have gone to work or are going to work, and they're not going around pubs in England having beers with Nigel Farage or Holly Valance or this other guy.

Patricia Karvelas

You've been watching obviously her social media, as have I. I watch all your social media, including yours, Andrew Bragg, to be fair. I'm an equal opportunity watcher of your social media. But yes, she has been meeting with lots of people, of course in the UK—Nigel Farage, of course. She's clearly gone over there to look at potentially some of the lessons because the populist right-wing movements are very much going off in some of those places. That's a threat to you, isn't it?

Senator Bragg

That's a matter for her. I'm interested in what are the actual solutions we can put forward at the next election to the Australian people. I think we'll be well served with our team and the experience that we have, and good luck to others. I understand that people are frustrated with the Australian political system, and I respect that and I acknowledge that, but it's now a challenge for us to respond to that anger. I think we're in a better place to do that as a traditional party of government, but not just because of that reason—just also because of the calibre of our people.

Patricia Karvelas

Thank you so much for joining us, you know I always love having you on.

[Ends]