Interview with James Glenday on ABC News Breakfast

Subjects: Net Zero
E&OE

James Glenday
Well, we are going to take you to Canberra now, where once again, the Federal Opposition has made itself the story with enormous divisions on display over the future of its climate commitment to reduce carbon emissions to net zero by 2050. Liberal frontbencher Andrew Bragg joins us now from Canberra. Andrew, welcome back to the programme.

Senator Bragg
Good morning, James.

James Glenday
First of all, just a big theoretical question. Can the Coalition achieve much at all if it continues to have these internal fights and internal ructions on full display?

Senator Bragg
Well, Australians are concerned about climate change. They see the impact that people have on our climate, and they want us to conserve the environment. People also want lower power prices, of course. I think this is a real moment for leadership now, not backsliding, because our job here is not to worry about what people's personal preferences might be. It's really about setting out a long-term course for the nation, which protects and guards against climate change, which, of course, we have to do by working with other nations. We need to take the long-term view on the environment and the economy, not focus too heavily on short-term political issues.

James Glenday
All right, well, let's get into the detail then. Last week on this programme, you agreed with my suggestion that net zero was going to be a non-negotiable for you. Is it still a non-negotiable?

Senator Bragg
Well, I don't see how we could walk away from the Paris Agreement. I don't see how we can walk away from our commitment to reduce emissions. Virtually every country is in the Paris Agreement. Virtually every country has committed to net zero emissions. We would be a pariah state. The reality is that countries like Canada and Japan, who are committing to net zero like Australia has, are also able to provide cheap power. I don't believe that net zero is the enemy here. I believe the enemy is Labor's electricity policies and their aversion to using coal for longer, their aversion to using other things like nuclear. I think that is the real cause of our problems in Australia, where we're seeing higher power prices and losing industry offshore.

James Glenday
I just want to take you back to that policy. You've used the word net zero, but you haven't used the term “net zero by 2050,” which is Labor's target and it's also your target, at least for the moment. Can you live with a policy that is net zero, but instead at some ill-defined year between 2050 and 2099?

Senator Bragg
Well, the Paris Agreement is the red line here. You've got to be in the Paris Agreement, because if you weren't, you'd be in a group of countries like Iran and Libya and maybe two or three others. You've got to be in the Paris Agreement, and then the Paris Agreement requires you to get to net zero in this century. I think that would be an important objective for Australia to maintain as a serious country, and with a group of people in this country that actually do care about climate change.

James Glenday
Do you have a year that you would put on it to reach net zero?

Senator Bragg
I think that's something we can work through. But I think the Nats have made some reasonable points here around the fact that China is a world leader on renewable energy, but it's also a world leader on opening up new coal-fired power stations, so why should we penalise our own people? I think we should be able to walk and chew gum.

James Glenday
Are the Nationals dictating Liberal policy now?

Senator Bragg
Well, no...

James Glenday
I mean, it looks like it. They've come out and said: we're going to scrap net zero. Now it seems that people like James Paterson, key members of the Liberal Party, are all shifting?

Senator Bragg
By the way, it's “walk and chew gum.”

James Glenday
Yes.

Senator Bragg
Look, I don't think so. We've been married for a long time. There have been times where there have been marriage counselling sessions. I think before the next session, we certainly need to have our own position, because we represent, in the main, urban Australia. We also represent regional states, but we need to make sure that we have a credible policy to present to the people who live in urban Australia. We're a highly urbanised population. The expectation is, particularly with how many millennials and Gen Zs are on the voting rolls now, that we actually believe this is a real risk to our future and that we have a credible policy to address it.

James Glenday
Do you need to stay married to the Nationals, particularly if they want to walk away from a credible climate policy?

Senator Bragg
Well, there's a reason you have divorce laws, I guess, but we would be much better served to stay with the Nationals because we have given Australia good government over the last 80 years. That would be my strong preference. But it's not at any cost. This is the point about Labor's net zero — they want to do their net zero at any cost. We want to...

James Glenday
Sorry, just back to that point. I'm just going to jump in. That does sound as though you're open to a split if the Nationals are not up for negotiation here.

Senator Bragg
Well, the Liberal Party is its own party, and we need to deploy policies that allow us to maintain our status as a party of government. But we want to work with the Nats, because I don't believe that the fragmentation of the centre-right is in Australia's interests. We want to have coherent economic and national security policies. We're living in a very dangerous age, and so maintaining the Coalition is a high priority. But you don't do these things at any cost. As I say, Labor want to do their net zero at any cost. We think that's crazy, and that's hurting Australians.

James Glenday
There are more reports out today that Sussan Ley could face a leadership challenge, if not before the end of the year, then within the next six months or so. Would that be fair in your view? Has she had a good crack?

Senator Bragg
Well, look, obviously, I support Sussan, and I think we need to show leadership now. We can't backslide. The people of Australia are relying on us to hold this terrible government to account and deliver policies which are reasonable alternatives. Now, Australians care about climate change. They also want lower power prices. I believe we can thread the needle on this. It's very important that the Liberal Party develops its own policies, and then we try and thread the whole thing together. I'm going to have to get some new metaphors.

James Glenday
Yeah, maybe work on the metaphors. Just one final brief one before I let you go. You're talking about the possibility of a deal. You're talking about the fact that Sussan Ley should be given a better go. Can the Coalition continue to talk about this? Does there have to be a settled position this week, or at least as soon as possible, so that this bin fire is eventually extinguished?

Senator Bragg
Well, I think we should try and deal with it as soon as possible. But as I say, I don't think this is beyond the realm of possibility that we can resolve this. The David Crisafulli Government in Queensland, which is an LNP Government, is in net zero. The Tasmanian Government, which is a Liberal Government, is in net zero. I don't think this is unresolvable. I think actually, we can resolve this. We can fight climate change as part of our international obligations. We can also deliver people lower power prices and give industry more assurance and effectively hold the blowtorch to Labor on what has been a disastrous application of energy and electricity policies under Chris Bowen. As I say, the net zero and the Paris Agreement are not causing the problems in Australia. The problems in Australia have been caused by the Labor Party's terrible electricity and energy policies.

James Glenday
Andrew Bragg, we do appreciate your time this morning. It's going to be a big day for you and the Coalition.

Senator Bragg
Thanks a lot.

[Ends]

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