Interview with Andrew Clennell on Sunday Agenda

24 May 2026

‍

Subjects: Polling, Housing Supply Crisis, Economic Policy, Taxation, Energy, The Budget, CGT, Negative Gearing,

E&OE.........

‍

Andrew Clennell

Joining me live at the desk now is Shadow Housing Minister Andrew Bragg. Never a dull moment on a Sunday morning. We could have peace in Iran, now we got shots outside the White House, but I'll go domestic here and ask you first of all about this Redbridge poll. Thanks for your time. Which has the Liberal Party only winning seven seats and the Coalition 12 in total. How much credence do you give this and how worried are you about this?

Senator Bragg

I think you have to take all these things seriously, and I think what it shows is there's a huge amount of grievance in the Australian community. And I think we have not done a good job in the last 10 years on economic policy. That's my main takeaway. That we've had too much similarity with the Labor Party. We should have done more on tax, more on industrial relations, more on super, more on Budget stuff. And we've just been too similar to Labor over a long period of time and we've been punished.

Andrew Clennell

Are you prepared for the decimation of the Liberal Party?

Senator Bragg

I think Australians want an economic revolution. I think they're right to want that, and I want the Liberal Party to be leading that.

Andrew Clennell

The government sort of claims they're doing that. What do you make of that?

Senator Bragg

Well, with their higher taxes? I mean, they're going to give us the world's highest PAYG income tax system. They're going to give us the world's highest Capital Gains Tax. I mean all they're doing is introducing new taxes which are going to smash investment and smash jobs.

Andrew Clennell

Do you accept it's looking increasingly likely to win office you'd need a coalition with One Nation now?

Senator Bragg

I'm not prepared to concede that right now. I think the message is clear though, people actually do want an economic revolution and they deserve one. I mean, we've got low productivity, we've got high interest rates, high inflation, anaemic growth. I mean, Australia is going out of business. I think we're in real trouble under this government and we have to accept that part of the blame here belongs with us over a long period of time. I think we've been too much like a uniparty with Labor on economic policy and if we don't massively differentiate, like we're starting to do on bracket creep, then we're going to be dead.

Andrew Clennell

Would you be prepared to do deals with One Nation to form government, do you think?

Senator Bragg

I don't think that needs to be conceded. I think we should still be shooting for majority government. But we've got to recognise that the business as usual approach is dead. I mean, there are some people in Canberra who say, oh it will just swing back, everything will be the same. I mean, the whole system is massively fragmented because Australians are very upset. They're very disappointed with us and they should be, because ultimately the chickens are coming home to roost for the Liberal Party, and this is a big opportunity for us to reset. It's not too late.

Andrew Clennell

What's the Liberal Party done wrong then in the last 10 years?

Senator Bragg

Well, we failed on economic policy. We failed to differentiate on things like IR, super, tax, spending. We have embraced...

Andrew Clennell

Spent too much then…

Senator Bragg

Yeah. And we haven't had any differentiation really on tax other than on Stage 3 tax cuts. The last time we had a decent tax policy before the bracket creep agenda was Stage 3.

Andrew Clennell

On IR obviously we had the WorkChoices debacle, I guess you could call it. I mean, are you looking to go back in that direction?

Senator Bragg

It's time for some risk to get some advantage for the Australian community. I mean otherwise we will never actually fix the problems. I mean...

Andrew Clennell

Yeah, but what do you want to do on IR? I mean if you're going to reduce people's salaries and conditions they're not going to vote for you.

Senator Bragg

You've got to give more choice. You've got to have more support for small business. I mean what Tim Wilson has started to kick off with the small business agenda is very important because small business is our natural constituency. I think a lot of people who work in small business, and don't forget small businesses are just people, have been disappointed with our offering as well. We haven't been ambitious enough. We've tried to hug the margins and our policy formulation hasn't been good enough.

Andrew Clennell

Now Tony Abbott is about to become your federal president of the Liberal Party. He's not exactly on your factional side of things. What do you think of him getting that role and how do you see him contributing? Because it seems like he wants a pretty active role taking on Labor and One Nation.

Senator Bragg

Look, I don't think the internals of the Liberal Party's organisational wing are of interest to many people, including myself. Ultimately the parliamentary team has to do the policy work. There's no substitute for that. That is the real work now that is needed to be done in an urgent fashion. The Budget Reply is a good start, but we have to do a lot more stuff in this term if we are going to be a majority government again. And to go back to the original question, I mean we have the capacity, the institutional capacity, to do a really significant piece of economic work that I think the Australian people are wanting us to do.

Andrew Clennell

What do you make of the government argument that since the 1999 Capital Gains Tax discount, house prices have gone up 400%, and wages simply haven't kept up. They're linking the two things.

Senator Bragg

Well, there's this magical thing called supply. And the laws of supply and demand haven't been suspended. And what's happened is these guys have spent $80 billion on housing to build 30,000 fewer houses each and every year since they won office in 2022. And look, Andrew Charlton is a nice guy, he's a smart guy, he's been successful. But sending him out, most people would have no idea who Andrew Charlton is. They'd be like, who the hell is this guy and why is he talking about these horrendous tax changes? They are in a terrible mess on this because they've put in place the world's highest Capital Gains Tax.

Andrew Clennell

Are you bagging the fact that Andrew Charlton came on the show this morning?

Senator Bragg

I like Andrew Charlton, but I mean most people would say who the hell is this guy? I mean, where's the Treasurer? Why isn't he defending these toxic changes?

Andrew Clennell

Look, I'd love to interview the Treasurer every week, but I did have him on the other week, but...

Senator Bragg

No, but I'm not making a comment about your show, Andrew. I'm making a comment about generally speaking, pushing Andrew Charlton out to defend these tax changes, I think is embarrassing for Chalmers and Albanese.

Andrew Clennell

Are you suggesting that the government is pushing Charlton out because Chalmers isn't up to the job on the sell?

Senator Bragg

Well, he's failed to explain why we have to have the world's highest Capital Gains Tax, as well as the world's highest PAYG system. I mean people feel smashed. They get no relief from this, and younger people in particular now face none of the opportunities or have none of the opportunities that the older generations had.

Andrew Clennell

What should the government do for startups if they're determined to press ahead with this tax but they want to give them some relief?

Senator Bragg

Well, they shouldn't proceed with this tax. I mean small businesses, startups, ETFs, crypto, shares, everything gets hit with this great big tax on everything. And they shouldn't be proceeding with it. I'm not interested in thinking about carve-outs. We don't think that people who have a good idea should be punished like this.

Andrew Clennell

Should the discount be reduced though?

Senator Bragg

Well, why?

Andrew Clennell

Well, why do you need it there?

Senator Bragg

I would increase it. I wouldn't reduce it.

Andrew Clennell

You would increase the Capital Gains Tax discount.

Senator Bragg

I would be looking to cut taxes.

Andrew Clennell

To what?

Senator Bragg

Well, we should be looking to cut taxes. There are heaps of ways you could play around with CGT to actually incentivise more investment. I mean...

Andrew Clennell

How are you funding income tax cuts?

Senator Bragg

Do you honestly think we need more taxes?

Andrew Clennell

No, I'm just saying if you want to fund income tax cuts, which most Australians would support, how do you fund that?

Senator Bragg

Well, you need to obviously look at the other side of the Budget which is spending. And I think the idea that people are too afraid to say what they would cut is part of the weakness which has inflicted...

Andrew Clennell

Well here you go, here's your chance. What are you cutting?

Senator Bragg

Well obviously we'll get through that, but we have to nominate exactly what it is that we wouldn't go ahead with. Now Angus...

Andrew Clennell

Well hang on, you just said people are too afraid to say, so why don't you just say? What would you like to cut?

Senator Bragg

We've talked about a lot of it in the budget reply, in terms of the government's boondoggles like the NRF and the housing funds, and obviously we'll support the government on the NDIS, but there are other things that we should be looking to reduce or to remove. Because I just think...

Andrew Clennell

You'll definitely support the government on the NDIS? Some speculation otherwise in the papers this morning.

Senator Bragg

We definitely should look to do that because it's important that we get this program back into a reasonable state. I mean, at the end of the day, if you look at all this One Nation stuff, I think one of the problems is that people look at politicians and they think, well they're all just the same. They're all just plastic, they have no real conviction. And I...

Andrew Clennell

They all wear the same suits, you know.

Senator Bragg

Probably. And that's part of the problem.

Andrew Clennell

As a Liberal moderate, what do you make of Angus Taylor's policy to take away renewables and net zero funding?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think that we should be looking to have more energy. We need to have more fossil fuels and more renewables. I mean ultimately you want to have more renewables than you have fossil fuels over the long term to decarbonise and to electrify, but we're going to need more fossil fuels for a very long time, because many other economies are opening up all different kinds of fossil fuel energy sources. So why would we deprive Australia of those opportunities? And I think the environmental laws which mean that you can't get anything out of the ground like gas or condensate oil for eight years is insane. I mean no other country would inflict that sort of economic pain. And if you want to be big in AI, you want to be strong in the economy, you need more energy. Energy is essential. And so we want more of everything. But the idea that you have to force some purity test on politicians whether you're for fossil fuels or whether you're for renewables. This is also part of the problem. I want more of everything.

Andrew Clennell

Do you have a trust?

Senator Bragg

No.

Andrew Clennell

Have you ever had a trust?

Senator Bragg

No.

Andrew Clennell

Do you acknowledge trusts were a form of tax minimisation and that system has to change?

Senator Bragg

I think people have used it for tax management needs. There's no doubt about that.

Andrew Clennell

Do you reckon Andrew Charlton did?

Senator Bragg

You'd have to ask Andrew about that. I think you tried. I think you tried. But look, I don't want to cast aspersions on people's personal arrangements. But it's been one of the reasons because the PAYG system is so high. I mean you're looking at one of the highest...

Andrew Clennell

Why wouldn't you use what's there, right?

Senator Bragg

Exactly. I mean I think you're crazy not to. I've always believed the Kerry Packer formulation here. Why would you give the government more tax than they need because they're not spending it very well? It makes a lot of sense to me.

Andrew Clennell

Alright, but what do you say to the government’s claim your taxation plan is largely unfunded and uncosted?

Senator Bragg

What do you mean it's unfunded and uncosted?

Andrew Clennell

The bracket creep plan, the big tax cuts. You've just listed a few things but you haven't exactly lined everything up.

Senator Bragg

Well, this is an aspiration to give people their own money back. Their plan is to tax inflation and to steal people's money. I mean we've said that we think it would cost in excess of $20 billion over the current forwards, but that will change because, with Labor's rampant inflation, it will probably escalate over the course of this term. And so we've been upfront about that.

Andrew Clennell

If you made any spending cuts, would any areas be quarantined, like health or education?

Senator Bragg

I just think that's the sort of lazy thinking that has got us into this mess. I mean we've got to be prepared...

Andrew Clennell

So you would cut health and education?

Senator Bragg

You've got to be prepared to say what it is you wouldn't... because hang on, this is a key point. Do you think that every dollar that's spent in those departments is efficiently spent? I think the answer is no. It's a rhetorical question. So if you're not prepared to go for some of the bigger things where there's not... people know. People are not stupid.

Andrew Clennell

You've just given a free kick to the government there, right?

Senator Bragg

But people are not dumb, and the idea that Albanese and Chalmers talk to people like their children. I just think that's got to stop because...

Andrew Clennell

But they won the election on health. They pushed, you know, we're going to spend more on health, and it worked, right? Worked really well.

Senator Bragg

Andrew, people know there's waste and dysfunction in this country. People know there's not enough productivity. People know that Canberra has its backside out of its pants when it comes to spending. And they want a lower tax system, and they want more efficient spending. And I think we should be up for that, otherwise what's the point?

Andrew Clennell

Finally, what's the one thing you would do on housing supply if elected that will make a tangible difference, given we don't have enough tradies in this country?

Senator Bragg

Well, I would fix productivity. I'd get rid of the CFMEU. I'd bring in more tradies. And I would look to cut construction costs. Because at the end of the day, one of the problems here is it's very hard to make a buck out of housing in Australia. The government never talk about that, but ultimately the government can't itself build their way out of this crisis. We need tradies, builders, developers to build houses - because I don't care how many Housing Australia Future Fund boondoggles you have, it will never solve the problem.

Andrew Clennell

Andrew Bragg, thanks so much for your time.

Senator Bragg

Thanks Andrew.

[Ends]

Media Contact | 0401 392 624

‍

‍

‍