Interview on 2SM Mornings with Chris Smith

Subjects: Housing and migration, ISIS Brides, Gas reservation, Farrer by-election, Federal Budget

E&OE.........

Chris Smith

On the line, I've got the Chair of the Select Committee on Productivity in Australia and also the Shadow Minister for the Environment, Senator Andrew Bragg in New South Wales. Good day, Andrew.

Senator Bragg

Hi Chris, how are you?

Chris Smith

Very, very well. I don't think we've ever... I think we've spoken a couple of times, but not certainly on this program, but thank you very much for coming on.

Senator Bragg

Thank you.

Chris Smith

I’m very interested, and I mentioned to my listeners at the start of the program, that you're putting the horse before the cart when it comes to immigration. I noticed this change in policy or addition to policy which will be announced next Thursday. But at least we've got the guts of it. So basically, unless the houses are being built and the infrastructure is in place, you're not going to bring people in and put the cart before the horse.

Senator Bragg

Well, Chris, it seems unbelievable to me that the government has let 1.4 million people into the country but only built 600,000 houses, but they haven't actually modelled the impact of that on the community. And so we will put that at the fore of our future policy development because we think that it's only reasonable that the country can accommodate the amount of migrants that we have houses for.

Chris Smith

But it could mean that, you know, for instance, if that policy was in place today, it could mean that next month no one comes into the country.

Senator Bragg

Well, clearly you need to have skilled migrants because we don't have enough Australians to do the work that we need to be done. So that would need to be factored into account. But the starting point is that we will be doing the modelling. I mean, the government doesn't even model this. So we'd be doing the modelling and it would be a factor in our policy formulation, and if the housing completions aren't there, then we'd have to look at caps on certain types of migration, yeah.

Chris Smith

Okay, the big story of course is the arrival into Australia, the return of these ISIS brides. Three have now been charged. There'll be appearances in Victorian and New South Wales courts today. The AFP didn't muck around, did they?

Senator Bragg

Well, it's just a disgrace that these people have been allowed to access the country anyway. I mean, we think that the government should have used temporary exclusion orders to prevent them. But now they are here, we are pleased that there is law enforcement being undertaken. But I mean, really, I mean, the Australian people are rightly very annoyed with their leaders for allowing this to happen. I mean, it's an outrage.

Chris Smith

What are your thoughts on the arrival at Melbourne Airport yesterday of these henchmen, like these men in black who decided to give the media a shove and a push and poke, and then shrouding around the women that are not being arrested, and it was all very, very intimidating. It's a nasty lot, this mob, and I'm talking about those that would have any support for ISIS. They are nasty pieces of work.

Senator Bragg

Well, I just think it's such a shame that we don't have clearing mechanisms to strip people of citizenship in this case because there's just no place in our society for people who hate our way of life, and I think those images will be distressing to most Australians. And so I think it does warrant a stronger policy response from the government. But as I say, I mean, it should never have got to this point. I mean, they should never have been allowed to come in.

Chris Smith

Yeah. I want to talk about gas reserves. It was funny, during the campaign of the last federal election, Peter Dutton was trying to get over the line a domestic reservation policy for gas. It made sense to most common people who apply common sense to what is short, that is gas. And then the government whacks Peter Dutton for it and laughs at him, "Oh, you know, this is ridiculous, it's unworkable" they said, and that we're trying to get rid of coal and gas. Of course, all of these renewables need a backup of at least gas to survive, otherwise we don't have the lights staying on. And now they've done a backflip with a triple pike, Andrew.

Senator Bragg

Well, I mean the main game here is getting more gas supply. And their environmental laws, the EPBC Act in particular, has been terrible for getting new gas and oil supply online in Australia. I mean, it takes up to eight years to get an approval. So I mean, most companies would just say, "Well, forget it, I'll just go somewhere else where I can do mining activity". So I mean, this is the big issue, that we just need to have more supply, more of everything. I mean, there's some weird purity test that seems to be applied by people in Canberra, you know, either you're for renewables or you're for fossil fuels. I mean, I just think we need to have more energy, we need to have more of everything right now.

Chris Smith

More energy, exactly right. Like, we're not going to have any chance of being in the AI game if we can't put out decent, reliable base-load power.

Senator Bragg

That's right. So it just seems insane to me that we have all these natural resources. I mean, given the last recent liquid fuel, ongoing liquid fuel issue, I mean, we have our own oil in this country which we haven't been able to get out of the ground, which is a disgrace. We have actually 42 years of oil in Australia, which I think would be very upsetting for your listeners to hear, because we have to import it through these shipping lanes which can be perilous at times. And I think, like, it is understandable to me why so many Australians are frustrated with politicians, because this is the second major supply chain shock we've had in six years. And it seems like no one learned anything from COVID.

Chris Smith

And we're standing on oil for 42 years and we don't dig it up. Like, it's madness, to be so reliant on importation is going to get us in all sorts of strife. And I know there's an inquiry now into whether we should build another refinery. You don't need an inquiry to work out whether you do, just build one.

Senator Bragg

Well, look, I think it's been a pretty embarrassing time for Australia. I mean, we're a great country, but it's been pretty embarrassing to see the Prime Minister go around to these countries with his cap in hand. So I think, look, we have to do better with our own policy formulation process. As you say, I mean, we did have some good policies last time. But we need to make sure that we get the policies out sooner this time, and that's why Peter Dutton and Angus has announced this policy today on housing and migration, because we want to show the Australian people that we've got some good ideas.

Chris Smith

Yeah, exactly. Farrer by-election tomorrow. Did you spend any time down in Farrer, Albury?

Senator Bragg

Oh, we've been supporting it in different ways, but I haven't been there for a while.

Chris Smith

You must be the only politician in Canberra who hasn't.

Senator Bragg

I think it's going to be pretty tough for us, but look, you know, we obviously are putting up a good show there, and the Nats are running as well. But look, I think the expectations are factored in that it's going to be pretty tough.

Chris Smith

Pretty tough to beat the One Nation candidate? Or pretty tough to beat the Teal?

Senator Bragg

Look, I think the Teal as well. I think that they'll both do well, and I think look, you know, it's a one-by-election in one seat in a difficult circumstance with a popular outgoing member. Look, if we don't win, I don't think it'll be the end of the world. And I think we've just got to get going on our policy formulation process, I think that's really the main game for us.

Chris Smith

Yeah. I appreciate your time this morning, we stand by for the budget next Tuesday. How do you think this will go down? It doesn't seem to be full of any kind of productivity-natured reform. It seems to be putting a whole heap of Post-it notes on stuff.

Senator Bragg

Well, I think the big risk is that you have a lot more taxes, and particularly in the housing space, where half the cost of a new house already goes in fees, charges, and regulation costs. So if you have more taxes, that'll be bad for housing, especially considering the higher interest rates we're seeing in this country, as opposed to other countries where they're actually going down. So look, I think it's going to be pretty ugly. I think Chalmers really has no idea what he's doing, and the PM seems to be like the dog that caught the cart. So I mean, Angus has got a big opportunity next Thursday night to put out a Budget in Reply, and as you can see today, we're already giving a lot of thought to that, and it's a very important opportunity for the Australian people to see the alternative vision that we have.

Chris Smith

An important week coming up, and we'll be all across it. That's right. Thank you, Andrew, much appreciated.

Senator Bragg

Thanks, Chris, appreciate it.

Chris Smith

Senator for New South Wales, Andrew Bragg, from the Liberal Party.

[Ends]