Interview with Ben Fordham on 2GB Breakfast

‍Subjects: Labor’s superannuation tax

E&OE………

Ben Fordham

The Prime Minister's under fire. It's been revealed, select high-ranking officials will be exempt from his tax on unrealised capital gains on super. Under the proposed plan, the Federal Government will increase the tax paid on super over $3 million, but the rules don't apply to everyone. State Premiers, Ministers, Governors, Department Heads, Judges and Magistrates will be exempt, and the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, will probably be exempt, too. The Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg is calling this out. He's written a piece in The Australian today saying, "The government's new super tax changes are being sold as a simple, fair measure to ensure the wealthiest Australians pay their fair share. But when you dig into the details, it's clear that there's one set of rules for typical Australians and another for the Prime Minister." The Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg is on the line. Senator, good morning to you.

Senator Bragg

Morning Ben.

Ben Fordham

So you think Anthony Albanese should face the tax like everyone else?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think it's only fair and reasonable that when the Senate considers the bill in the coming months, that we should be able to see how the Prime Minister's personal pension arrangements will work. We should be able to see how much money he'll be up for. Why should it be one rule for him and one for every other Australian?

Ben Fordham

Hey, Andrew, are you in a broom closet or are you on a loudspeaker or have you got earphones in your ears? What's going on?

Senator Bragg

No, I'm just talking to the phone, normally.

Ben Fordham

Okay, no worries. All right. I'll just hope that we can we had a clearer line now. So if you could just move around a little bit and then everyone can hear you clearly. So as it stands, all of these people that I've just mentioned, the people in those roles, from the Prime Minister to Magistrates and Judges and Department Heads and Ministers and State Premiers, they won't have to pay the extra whack, right?

Senator Bragg

Well, there'll be some state officials, former Premiers and the like, that have been explicitly excised. But the rub here is that the Treasurer has given himself a regulation-making power, which means he can set the rules for others, like the Prime Minister, after the bill has been passed by the Senate, and therefore, there won't be any scrutiny applied, and he can just simply make the rules, and then they will stand. I think that's a massive integrity issue because if the Prime Minister wants to introduce a new tax, he should be clear about how it will apply to his own arrangements.

Ben Fordham

Well, as it stands, it could be his own Treasurer who might be deciding his circumstances. That's a conflict?

Senator Bragg

It's a massive conflict of interest. And most people, if they're being asked to set the rules for their boss, will probably look behind them, look over their shoulder, as it were, before they actually set the rules.

Ben Fordham

You say it's time for the Treasurer to front up on the Prime Minister's super tax. So do you think Jim Chalmers needs to come clean on this, or shouldn't it be Anthony Albanese himself?

Senator Bragg

Well, I mean, they are the government. They're the Prime Minister and the Treasurer. They have a bill before the Senate. They should amend the bill and make it very clear how the Prime Minister's arrangements will work by putting all the detail in the bill - the calculation methodology. And separately, the Treasurer should be able to say exactly how much the PM will pay in the first year of his pension. I mean, it's not good enough to say, here's how it will work for everyday Australians, but to leave the Prime Minister's arrangements subject to a further process in the future.

Ben Fordham

Andrew Bragg, the wider issue, of course, is just this whole idea, the uncharted territory of charging a tax on unrealised capital gains. I mean, that should be case closed, but so far it hasn't been. Anthony Albanese seems to be sticking to his guns.

Senator Bragg

That's right. In addition to this massive integrity issue, there's also the issue of the government wanting to take money that doesn't actually exist. A lot of the profits which are on paper going to be taxed may actually disappear within a year. Sometimes you make money on paper, the next one, you lose money on paper. You pay tax on the upside, but you don't get a refund if you actually lose paper money. And the other rub here is that it's not indexed, so over a million people will pay this tax in the coming years. And if the Greens have their way and the threshold is lowered, it could be over 2 million people will actually pay this very unfair tax.

Ben Fordham

Yeah, we know the number of people who are going to be impacted by it is only going to grow in the years ahead. And what about the Prime Minister's defence of all of this? He said during the election campaign, oh, well, it's not going to hurt everyone. There's only a small number of people who are going to cop it.

Senator Bragg

Well, it will hit the millennial cohort the hardest because of the failure of the government to index this measure. And so ultimately, that means that millions of people will pay a tax, sometimes upon gains which haven't even been made. There's never been a tax in Australian history on money which doesn't exist, and there's never been a tax on unrealised gains. So many problems with this bill.

Ben Fordham

Yeah. I think even though the Coalition didn't make hay on this issue during the election campaign, I think when it comes to the discrepancies between the average person on the street and senior people in government, including the Prime Minister, I think they're going to have to make some adjustment or at least clarify how the rules will apply to people like the Prime Minister. Good on you for bringing it up. I encourage people to read your piece in The Australian today. Thank you so much.

Senator Bragg

Thanks, Ben. Thanks a lot.

Ben Fordham

Andrew Bragg, the Liberal Senator from New South Wales.

[Ends]

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