Interview with Tom Connell on News24

E&OE....

Tom Connell:

Welcome back. Joining me live is Shadow Housing and Environment Minister Andrew Bragg. We've done the ladder predictor in the ad break. No top four for the Cats?

Senator Bragg:

Not unless two teams lose.

Tom Connell:

Yeah. He had to be told that. He's worked it out. The maths was a worry for you, maybe that's why I started on it. I've put you off your stride if you like. Let's start on housing. Basic housing. A lot of headlines out of this, some feedback since. Have you had any rethink? Is too basic perhaps a bad idea?

Senator Bragg:

No, I think it's a good idea because we need to cut the corruption and the cost of housing and the cronyism, and one of the best ways to do it is to have a simplified regulatory system where you can have safe, secure houses with nice amenity. And I'm confident that the Basic Australian Standard will achieve that because it will cut so much complexity. And people can, instead of buying a luxury car, they can buy an entry-level car. It'll still have all the basic standards and nice amenity, but it won't be gold-plated.

Tom Connell:

But this is the grey area, isn't it? And here's our 80 pages, here's how simple it is. Is that a work in progress?

Senator Bragg:

It's more about stripping out costs than actual pages, but pages is a useful proxy. But all the additional extras we've discussed in the past...

Tom Connell:

So something like no environmental standards at all, that's still where you're at?

Senator Bragg:

It has, you know, insulation. It will have to have basic standards.

Tom Connell:

And a rating? You know what your rating was? You buy the house and if you want to buy a house with 1.5, good luck with you, and then you know what you're getting into.

Senator Bragg:

Like, most Australians would live in a one or two-star house now. So it would have basic—a lot of apartments would be better than that. It would have basic insulation, it would have all the basics, but it wouldn't be a seven-star house. And so it's like when you buy a car, your first car might not be a Lamborghini. It might be a Datsun 120Y, in your case. I'm not sure what your first car was. Maybe it was a Holden. And you work up as you go through your life. I mean, a first home buyer who's building a new house probably doesn't want to build the most expensive house in the country because they can't afford it.

Tom Connell:

1987 Ford Laser, so from down your neck of the woods. What about immigration? You put a figure on it, 180,000. That seemed to get you in a bit of strife. Is this just you saying, "Here's the housing we're building," you're putting a number on what is a Coalition policy? The policy is we only have enough migrants for houses we build, and this is the number. Is that purely the logic?

Senator Bragg:

I don't think it's caused any strife. I'd say it's not a policy, it's not a target, it's not an opinion, it's just a fact that if you want to close the housing and migration gap, which is about 350 to 400,000 since Labor's been in office, then your range needs to be around 180,000 people.

Tom Connell:

So you're putting a number on what is a Coalition policy. The policy is linking housing and migration. You're going, "If we do that, here's a number."

Senator Bragg:

Those are just the facts. The question of how you do it needs to be very, very carefully consulted upon.

Tom Connell:

So as to that, though, is the problem that as soon as anybody says a number or a visa or a cohort, then someone says, "That's sacred"? In this case, it was the Nationals and working holiday makers.

Senator Bragg:

I'm sure we'll work it through. I'm confident we can work it through. If you can work out...

Tom Connell:

180 is a big cut, a big reduction. Is it possible to get to that without touching working holiday makers, 200,000 people a year?

Senator Bragg:

Well, as I said, we'll work through that, but there's two gates. The first gate is, what's your range? And then the second gate is, how do you get to the range? And we'll work through that in an orderly way.

Tom Connell:

But does orderly way also mean compromise, that if the Nationals want to be able to go, "We're cutting immigration," they need to realise you can't rule out visa classes while you're doing that?

Senator Bragg:

Look, I'm sure we'll work it through. I'm confident we can work it through. Matt Canavan's a smart guy. I'm very confident that we can work with him.

Tom Connell:

You get what I'm saying, though.

Senator Bragg:

I can't answer the question right now. It was quite clear last week that these are the parameters, and these are some of the ways you can get there, and we'll work it through.

Tom Connell:

Were you surprised at the strength of pushback on just daring to mention a visa class or two?

Senator Bragg:

No, I don't think so. Nothing surprises me.

Tom Connell:

Okay. What about superannuation? You had some interesting words to say about that. Pauline Hanson says let more people access it. I'm not sure it's a set policy, maybe a vibe. What did you make of what she had to say?

Senator Bragg:

Not sure I understand any of their policies really, but in terms of our own policy, it remains under review.

Tom Connell:

This is super for housing?

Senator Bragg:

We understand that the key part of a person's retirement is their housing status. We know that, it's a fact. And so how you get that house may be informed by your superannuation balance or contributions, and these policies remain under review.

Tom Connell:

What about just opening it up broadly to access it? Did COVID show us that's not a good idea? The second highest category of people spending money a fortnight after getting super was gambling.

Senator Bragg:

As you know, people have different philosophical views about the role of compulsion. Well, you know what my view is. I've been sceptical that the scheme overall is working for people and for the Budget, but as a policy...

Tom Connell:

Didn't COVID show that having a savings pot, a compulsory one, is better than what people chose to do with it often? The number one paydown was debt, but the next was gambling, clothing was up there, and so on. Didn't that show that maybe sometimes the word "compulsory" is a necessary one?

Senator Bragg:

Well, Tom, from memory, the biggest category was people paying off their mortgages.

Tom Connell:

Debt was the first one. Gambling was the second highest.

Senator Bragg:

Okay.

Tom Connell:

Clothing was top few. I had this up before.

Senator Bragg:

Well, I don't have those numbers in front of me, but I mean, I'm not advocating for that exact policy either.

Tom Connell:

Restaurants and cafes was up there. Furniture, alcohol, and tobacco was eighth, for example.

Senator Bragg:

Tom, I know that as President of the Press Gallery, you want...

Tom Connell:

Press Club.

Senator Bragg:

Press Club.

Tom Connell:

Don't start a turf war...

Senator Bragg:

Sorry, I don't want to start a turf war. But you want there to be a good, robust policy debate, and if there is a case for targeted demand-side solutions, then that should be part of the mix, which is why it's part of our policy review.

Tom Connell:

Enjoyed you fronting up. I think you've got some headlines and some debate going, so I'll tick you on that one.

Senator Bragg:

Oh, I appreciate the opportunity.

Tom Connell:

Thanks again for your time today.

Senator Bragg:

Thanks, Tom.

[Ends]