Interview with Sally Sara on ABC Radio National

‍Subjects: One Nation superannuation policy, early access to superannuation, home ownership in retirement, Coalition policy review, Labor pork-barrelling allegations.

E&OE....

Sally Sara:

Thank you very much. You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. Well, Andrew Bragg, the Shadow Minister for Housing and Homelessness is here. Andrew Bragg, welcome back to the program.

Senator Bragg:

Good morning Sally, how are you?

Sally Sara:

Very well, thank you. One Nation has again this morning defended its superannuation proposal, which would allow renters and mortgage borrowers to carve out a quarter of their 12% super payments for up to three years. Earlier, I asked One Nation treasury spokesperson, Barnaby Joyce, if modelling was done for the policy. Let's have a listen.

Barnaby Joyce:

When people say you've got to model it, you're saying, "So I have to model whether someone gets access to their own money." That's... I mean, I can understand that's conceptualised by socialism, but we believe that the money is your money, and the idea that I have to model whether... not whether the government spends any money, like they pour out in sort of payments...

Sally Sara:

There are implications of policy changes. So just to be clear, has no modelling been done?

Barnaby Joyce:

Is there an implication beyond it being their money? Do you model the money you get paid at the end of the week? Do you have to model that money before you get paid?

Sally Sara:

That's Barnaby Joyce speaking on the program earlier. Andrew Bragg, what do you think of those comments?

Senator Bragg:

Well, I think effectively that just reflects the fact that superannuation is deferred wages. But I'm going to leave the explanation of their policy up to Mr Joyce and Co. But I think the most telling point here is that the Treasurer has run a million miles from this debate because he has given up on housing, and he has given up on the idea that retired people should be able to live in a house. And the biggest problem we have in this country now in the retirement system is the growing trend of retired renters. And that's why this is such an important debate.

Sally Sara:

Is it a good idea, what One Nation is proposing?

Senator Bragg:

Well, it's a short-term factor that would help with cost-of-living relief, I imagine, but I don't think it addresses that long-term structural challenge. So 30 years ago, you had about 20% of retirees renting, now you've got about 30%, and in 20 years it'll be about 40%. That is going to change the character of retirement, it's going to change the country. And so that's why having the debate about how the retirement system intersects with housing is crucial. I mean, we don't want to be a nation of retired renters. It's no good.

Sally Sara:

Has the Coalition been considering something similar to this?

Senator Bragg:

Look, as all Oppositions do, we have internal reviews and those are ongoing. But I think it's very telling that the Treasurer, having destroyed the Budget and destroyed the housing system, can't even bring himself to have this debate. Instead, what he wants to do is to go and raise donations for the Labor Party on the back of a public debate. I mean, the bloke isn't fit to be in the job, I'd say. Effectively, if you go back to Treasurers past of all stripes, they had the guts to have the debate on the policy merits about national savings, about retirement policy, about housing policy. These were great matters of state. Now, apparently, they're matters that are only good enough to get donations on.

Sally Sara:

So in principle, it doesn't sound like... are you knocking this idea on the head that One Nation is putting forward? In principle, is it workable?

Senator Bragg:

Well, that's their policy. It's not our policy, it's their policy. You'll have to ask them about that.

Sally Sara:

Two separate reports this week by Phil Coorey and Samantha Maiden have suggested the Coalition was working on its own early access to super policy. Do you think One Nation might have got wind of your plans and gazumped you here?

Senator Bragg:

Well, I don't know about that, you'd have to ask them. But what I can say is that as the Opposition, of course we always have the usual policy reviews and internal processes that you would expect in a democracy to be undertaken, and that's ongoing across the board, as you would hope. But I make the general point that these are important debates to have, and the Labor Party, the Government, has ruled itself out of having any debate here at all. I mean, their view is: the housing system is perfect, the retirement system is perfect, and nothing can be improved. I just don't think that's the view of most Australians.

Sally Sara:

Has the Opposition modelled anything similar to what One Nation has put forward?

Senator Bragg:

Well, you wouldn't expect me to get into those sort of internal process details, I don't think. I mean, it's not something for me to be announcing today on your program. I'm just making the general point that these are important matters of economic debate in this country, and I think it's very telling that the government is afraid of this debate.

Sally Sara:

Are you concerned about leaking from any of your Liberal or Nationals colleagues on these kinds of policy formulation discussions?

Senator Bragg:

Look, my colleagues are very focused on policy. They are wanting, they are ambitious and hungry for policy, and that's what we've been doing. We've announced policies last week, we've announced policies in the Budget Reply. It's an ongoing process, and I know that we're all committed to that.

Sally Sara:

Given the current economic situation and some of the long-term issues that you're outlining, in principle, should people have increased access to their own money in superannuation earlier if that's what they're looking to do?

Senator Bragg:

Well, I think what's important is that we look at the long-term problems the country has. And if we are going to become almost a majority nation of retired renters, then we need to look very carefully at how these things are calibrated. The Retirement Income Review itself found that the key determinant of your success in retirement was your housing status. If that is slipping away, then it is reckless and crazy for the Labor Party to say that nothing can be improved, everything is perfect.

Sally Sara:

So it is something that in principle... this principle that One Nation is putting forward of people should have access to their own money...

Senator Bragg:

Well, that's a short-term...as you know, you discussed this this morning with Mr Joyce, that's a short-term factor that they're talking about.

Sally Sara:

So we shouldn't focus on that?

Senator Bragg:

Well, I'm not going to give the ABC advice on what it should and shouldn't do, of course, that would be probably inappropriate. But that's their policy, it's not our policy.

Sally Sara:

So what would the Coalition do?

Senator Bragg:

Well, as I've said to you, we have an ongoing process.

Sally Sara:

When will we see something from the Coalition on this?

Senator Bragg:

Well, these things take time, and it's important that you get all the details right.

Sally Sara:

On a separate issue, the Centre for Public Integrity has accused Labor of possible misuse of public money or serious pork-barrelling over a major and local community infrastructure fund, which was used to deliver election promises. Is it legitimate for governments to run invite-only grant programs to fund promises that have been made openly during the election?

Senator Bragg:

Well, that's really a question for the government, but I'd say that the government is very good at politics and spin and not so good at delivery. And as I've said this morning on your program, I just wish that the Treasurer and the Prime Minister were more focused on the long-term economic challenges facing the nation, rather than dishing out money to their mates and running cover for vested interests.

Sally Sara:

Andrew Bragg, thank you for joining me this morning.

Senator Bragg:

Thanks, Sally.

Sally Sara:

Andrew Bragg is the Shadow Minister for Housing and Homelessness, and the Shadow Minister for the Environment. You're listening to Radio National Breakfast.

[Ends]


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