Interview with Patricia Karvelas on Afternoon Briefing

Subjects: NDIS, Budget, EPBC

E&OE.........

Patricia Karvelas

For the Opposition's view, I want to bring in Shadow Housing and Environment Minister

Andrew Bragg. Welcome to the programme.

Senator Bragg

Hi, PK.

Patricia Karvelas

I hope you're not going to be attacked by birds, but we're going to hope you're going to be safe.

I'm actually worried about you. This is very Hitchcock sounding.

Senator Bragg

Thank you.

Patricia Karvelas

The Federal Treasurer has revealed the National Disability Insurance Scheme will be the most

important part of the savings that come up in the Budget. Is that the right focus?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think every Australian taxi driver frankly has a storey about NDIS rorts, and that's a big

worry because Australians work very hard, pay a lot of tax, and we want our tax dollars to be

well spent and well targeted on people who really need it, not on rip-offs and rorts.

Patricia Karvelas

So bipartisan support for big changes to the NDIS that bring it back?

Senator Bragg

Well, let's see what they're going to actually announce, but I mean, the starting point would be

that more targeting would seem appropriate and better efficiency and better value for the

taxpayer.

Patricia Karvelas

Do you think it should be means tested?

Senator Bragg

Well, I think in general we need to see more means testing across the board. In my own

portfolio, we have the 5% deposits which are available to any Australian regardless of their

income. And what you've seen there is a massive increase in house prices for entry-level

houses, which has meant that actually the Australian dream is further out of reach for younger

Australians. So I think it's crazy that we have programmes that aren't means-tested. Yes.

Patricia Karvelas

Okay. So does that mean that in those sorts of programmes, you think that means testing should

be, you know, Coalition policy if you were to win government?

Senator Bragg

Well, you've got to look at each scheme on its merits, but in general, my starting point would

be that means testing is a good thing, particularly when you've got $1 trillion of debt thanks to

this government largely, and you've got a Budget which is never ever going to be back in the

black. So the country is running out of money and we can't afford just to give taxpayers' funds

away to people who really don't need taxpayer support.

Patricia Karvelas

Look, the Treasurer argues that their budget planning is hostage to decisions taken in Tehran

and Washington. He's right, isn't he?

Senator Bragg

I mean, this guy is a world leader. He's a doctor, he's got a PhD in blame shifting. I mean, we

have a fuel crisis because the country was left unprepared after we had a supply chain shock

just five years ago. And we have a massive housing shortage because they've wasted money

on bureaucracy, not actually on building houses. So a lot of the problems we have in our

economy today is because the government have failed on the supply side. They've failed to get

things moving. The economy is completely constipated and ugly, frankly. You've got 85% of

all jobs created last year were non-market jobs— new jobs, I should say. You've got low

productivity, you've got high inflation, high interest rates. I mean, the economy is pretty sick.

Patricia Karvelas

Do you think the Budget should be making contingencies for things like JobKeeper and other

big ideas like that if for instance, the Middle East war continues and we see a big shock to our

economy?

Senator Bragg

Well, the government should be investing in resilience and ensuring that we can get the core

things that we need, like liquid fuels, but also making sure that we can do electrification and

other things. Because the truth is Australia needs more of everything. We need to see more

renewables, more fossil fuels, more houses. We need more things. So we need to have that

agenda of unleashing the economy front and centre in the Budget. I would have thought that

for a Treasurer that made a big deal about cutting regulation after his roundtable, he's actually

made two things worse. He's made the EPBC worse and he's made the National Construction

Code worse. So, they're good at having press conferences and talking about things, but what

they're bad on is actually fixing things. And I think the Australian people now are feeling the

pain of Labor's economic model where they look after their mates and frankly the rest of us

have got to deal with their mismanagement, particularly now with the fuel crisis, which was

frankly foreseeable.

Patricia Karvelas

Well, on that, you say we need more electrification. Actually, that's the opposite approach that

your party has just literally taken when it comes to cutting the fuel excise. All of the costs for

cutting the fuel excise outlined by your leader were actually about paring back that kind of

approach. Is that really wise?

Senator Bragg

Well, my point is we want to see more of everything. So we want to see Australians be able to

drive a car cheaply. Now, most Australians will be using internal combustion engines. For other

Australians that can afford to buy an EV, great. But in general, we want to have more of

everything. So you need more fossil fuels, you need more renewables. The idea that you've got

to choose, that you've got some purity test, that you want to be only for fossil fuels or only for

renewables is crazy thinking. You want to have more of everything.

Patricia Karvelas

But do you really want more fossil fuels? We're meant to be reducing them.

Senator Bragg

Yeah, but I mean, what's the alternative, PK? We're one of the world's biggest exporters of

fossil fuels.

Patricia Karvelas

You said electrification, renewables. There are alternatives.

Senator Bragg

Because I think we want to have more of everything. I think that the idea that you've got to

choose and be forced into some binary judgement is unscientific and frankly damaging to our

economy because we are going to have internal combustion engines for some time. We are

going to have EVs, for example, in terms of transport. And so I think it would make sense to

make all of those things as cheap as possible.

Patricia Karvelas

The Coalition has announced you'll overhaul environmental approvals to reverse Labor's laws

which prevent energy commodities from accessing streamlined approval pathways, fast-track

projects of national strategic priority, and also reinstate incentives to unlock early-stage

exploration and new supply. Why? Why is this policy now? And how much will that change

the way that the recent laws operate?

Senator Bragg

Well, because it takes up to eight years to get an approval done through the EPBC and in the

case of new oil and gas developments, a lot of these haven't actually come to pass because the

industry can't actually get through Canberra's bullshit and rubbish. So the idea that we cannot

get access to the 42 years of oil underneath Australia is insane. Instead, we have to import it

by ship into this country. The fact that we can't get access to more gas is crazy. The fact that

we can't get large-scale renewable projects that are going to be needed to support AI data

centres is crazy. So the government said they've fixed EPBC. I would say they've made it worse.

They've done no bilateral deals with the states and frankly, no one knows what they've done.

Most of the things that they changed are subject to future regulations. So it's as clear as mud.

Patricia Karvelas

Yeah, you say all that, but the laws haven't even been given a chance to operate yet. You're

promising to change laws that you haven't even given a chance to work?

Senator Bragg

Well, because it's a complete mess. He's passed a law last year with the Greens. This is Murray

Watt. Then he's got regulations he hasn't even made. I mean, that's six months ago now since

he passed the laws. I mean, we've got to get going now. We're trying to protect Australians and

get them ready for future shocks. We've just had two major supply chain shocks in six years.

We need to be more resilient. We can't afford to be dependent. We are too good a country to

be dependent. If we have good resources, we should get them out of the ground, just as we

should make the most of our natural endowment of sunlight for solar power. So we need to

have more of everything. And these EPBC laws have been made worse, not better, by this

government.

Patricia Karvelas

And yet some of the chief architects of these ideas have said that they're good laws and should

be given the chance to go ahead. You dealt yourselves out of those negotiations. You say they

were passed by the Greens. That's because the Coalition basically vacated the field.

Senator Bragg

What we're saying today is that we believe that the EPBC laws are worse, not better, and we're

going to come back with a future proposal and make it clean and easy to get stuff done in

Australia. I mean, Australia is closed for business under this government. You can't get

anything done. You can't dig, you can't drill, you can't get renewables going, you can't get

anything. So we think that there is a simple and clean way to get approvals for major projects,

be they renewables or be they fossil fuels, which are needed to protect Australians' livelihoods.

And we won't take a backward step in doing that because the Greens-Labor deal has already

failed, I would say.

Patricia Karvelas

Well, I think the laws haven't even had a chance to start. I mean, I'm sure they could fail, but

we haven't actually seen their execution. So on that one, I'll fact-check you at least on that. So

people know the laws haven't even really started properly. But I understand your arguments.

Thank you very much for joining us.

Senator Bragg

Thanks, PK.

[Ends]

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