Interview with Patricia Karvelas on ABC Afternoon Briefing

‍Subjects: Humanitarian disaster in Nepal, National Cabinet data centre energy standards, superannuation and housing, Migration policy.

E&OE....

Patricia Karvelas:

For a view from the Opposition, Andrew Bragg is the Shadow Minister for Housing and the Environment. He joins us this afternoon. Andrew Bragg, welcome.

Senator Bragg:

Hi PK.

Patricia Karvelas:

We have to start on this huge disaster unfolding in our region in Nepal, and of course, many Australians affected. Are you satisfied Australia is doing enough? We're waiting to be asked, but should we be more proactive?

Senator Bragg:

Well, Australia should definitely help Nepal as much as we can, because we have a huge amount of people-to-people links between our two nations. We educate so many young Nepalese and we have a huge, growing Nepalese-Australian diaspora here in Sydney. So we should do whatever we can to help our Nepalese brothers and sisters.

Patricia Karvelas:

Do you think Australian medical assistance teams should also be sent in? We do actually have really sophisticated teams that can be sent into these environments. Should we be, again, proactively offering this kind of assistance?

Senator Bragg:

Well, I'm sure that we are through the Foreign Affairs Ministry, and we have extensive experience, sadly, in disaster management given the nature of our environment here in Australia. So we should be offering that to our Nepalese colleagues, of course.

Patricia Karvelas:

I want to move to a couple of issues that are in the political sphere, not in the situation unfolding overseas that of course Australians are affected by. Let's start firstly on the National Cabinet meeting, and that's determined a set of national standards, but a bit of flexibility that the Queensland government has lauded. They think that flexibility is necessary for them. Is that a positive step in your view, or are we going to see different standards now among different states and territories?

Senator Bragg:

Well, the first point to make is that the Prime Minister, I think, is mistaken if he thinks he can regulate these things from Canberra. I mean, the tax policy he announced just before he announced his AI policy would undercut any nation's serious attempt to become a developer of AI applications, because of course the Prime Minister himself doesn't sign off on the planning judgments made at the local and state level. But for the purposes of this question, I would say that David Crisafulli has made a very wise judgment to avail himself of whatever power he can get to underwrite data centres being established in Queensland.

Patricia Karvelas:

And what do you think the consequence will be? Will it mean that data centres, in your view, is there any evidence that they'll want to go to Queensland more?

Senator Bragg:

Well, I think they'll go for the cheapest possible cost, and in many cases, they will look for the cleanest costs as well. But ultimately, we live in a market where people should be able to build these centres with appropriate consideration to the water and the power usage in accordance with local planning rules. I mean, that's the system that we have. So if people want to use nuclear, or coal, or renewables, they should be able to use whatever actually stacks up from a business case point of view. We are running a country at the moment like a trade union. We should be running the country like it's a business.

Patricia Karvelas:

Just on an issue you've raised quite a lot in your career: superannuation. You have expressed your disdain for the system, that's my language. I want you to be clear: do you want the Coalition to change its position on compulsory superannuation?

Senator Bragg:

Well, it's under review, as you know, and I indicated a couple of weeks ago that we are reviewing the housing policies, and the core to a safe retirement is owning a house. That is the most fundamental component of a safe retirement in Australia: owning your own house. And as a result of that dogged pursuit, we are reviewing our policies, and that of course includes saving schemes like superannuation.

Patricia Karvelas:

Okay, so it's being reviewed, but I've had many senior Liberals on who say superannuation has been a huge success, others who say it will be political poison to try and change it. But you think—well, I've been told that, you know, the politics is pretty brutal for trying to change it. You could see that the government is quite happy to keep talking about superannuation, they think it's been a success and that Australians rate it as a success. So what kind of changes do you believe in? Is the 12% rate too high? What kind of changes do you think are worth looking at?

Senator Bragg:

We are obsessed with driving up home ownership, and in order to do that, we're looking at the various savings schemes that Australians have. I mean, superannuation isn't the only way you can save for retirement. There are private savings, there's of course housing, there are other investments people can make. And so we're looking at all these various options, because of course at the end of the day, if you don't have a house in retirement and you're renting, it's going to be a pretty tough time. And of course, the super funds themselves are very good at becoming massive landlords, and the super rules are a bit peculiar in that you can invest in any house except for your own. That's always been a bit of an unusual rule. But as I say, these are matters that are under review. We are in Opposition, and it would be crazy if we didn't look at these things. Of course, the government, having stuffed the economy and stuffed the Budget, only have scare campaigns, and I think Jim Chalmers is becoming the most desperate man in Canberra right now.

Patricia Karvelas:

Okay, you mentioned housing, but you've previously told me you think basically taking super and using it for housing can be inflationary. Have you changed your mind?

Senator Bragg:

I think I've been very clear with you in the past that the policy we had at the last election we wouldn't have again. I mean, that's been to two elections. There are many different ways that you can look at these things. That's under review. I think that's a healthy thing to do. And as I say, if the key test of a safe retirement is your housing status, then why wouldn't you look at every way to help guarantee people get a first home? Of course, the housing crisis itself needs to be addressed with supply-side measures, and I'm very committed to delivering more supply-side policy here. But there is a case for targeted demand-side solutions. I mean, of course, the government have a demand-side solution which is a free-for-all: the 5% deposit scheme, which has pushed prices up significantly, in fact by 6% in the first six months since they changed it.

Patricia Karvelas:

But in terms of super and potential changes—you say it's under review—are the changes only in relation to possibly housing, a different form of that, or are there other changes that you think need to be looked at?

Senator Bragg:

Well, look, I mean, I'm the Shadow Housing Minister. My job is to get more Australians into housing. We want to cut taxes, we want to cut red tape, we want to reduce migration, and we want to look at sensible ways to help Australians get into housing. And we're not going to be like Jim Chalmers, who's afraid of a proper debate. The Treasurer of the Commonwealth won't have a proper debate about something and will just try and revert to the only thing he knows, which is politics and fundraising for his Labor Party, which apparently needs more money so it can tell more lies.

Patricia Karvelas:

There's a lot of talk about the government's potential cuts, including to refugee numbers. Do you think that should be where the government should look for cuts?

Senator Bragg:

Well, if you want to get back to a reasonable net overseas migration number where you can close the housing gap, then you need to look at all the options again. And I think the Australian people want to have a country where they can buy a house on an average wage again, and the migration equation is part of that. It's not the only way to solve it, but it is part of the puzzle. And so we should be looking at all those options as we resolve our policy on that front before the next election.

Patricia Karvelas:

There is breaking news, and we're going to bring you more of it in a second, but the Prime Minister has guaranteed Labor will maintain Australia's refugee intake at its current level after of course his own minister said it would be cut. So obviously the government's had a big discussion about it. But I'm going to challenge you on this: why shouldn't it be maintained at 20,000 given we have some very hardline border security policies in this country? Shouldn't we be ensuring that the most desperate people in the world have a right to live here?

Senator Bragg:

Well, refugees would not be the target of our migration policy. The migration policy that we will resolve in due course will be focused on the other cohorts that were identified in the Press Club speech a couple of weeks ago. We've been a proud nation that has housed millions of refugees since the Second World War. I think it's important that we maintain that status. And I just don't think it's refugees that are the problem here. When you look at the overall numbers of the migration system, it's not refugees that are the problem.

Patricia Karvelas:

Thank you so much for joining us, Andrew Bragg.

Senator Bragg:

Thanks.

[Ends]

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