Interview with Mark Levy on 2GB Mornings

29 October 2025

Subjects: Auditor-General Audit of Housing Australia, Housing, Prime Minister's T-Shirt

E&OE………



Senator Bragg

Andrew Bragg is a Liberal Senator and Shadow Minister for Housing. He's on the line. Senator, good morning to you.

Senator Bragg

Mark, how you going?

Mark Levy

Mate I'm very well, and I'm glad you're making some noise about all of this, because when you break it down, we've got a $10 billion Housing Future Fund, supposed to help build 40,000 social and affordable rental homes by 2028, but it hasn't done much at all, has it?

Senator Bragg

Well, it's been a disaster. They've had $10 billion for two years, and they haven't built houses. If they have, they've been buying them. It's been one of the greatest failures of public administration in my lifetime, and now the audit office is looking at it, and I think they're going to find a lot of stuff that's going to really worry taxpayers.

Mark Levy

What do you think those things will be?

Senator Bragg

Well, apart from doing nothing for two years, they're going to find, I think, that the fund is massively overpaying. The average cost to build a new house is about half a million dollars, but the housing fund is spending up to $1.3 million per house. Margaret Thatcher used to talk about other people's money, and I think that's what's happening here.

Mark Levy

Are we just lining the pockets of the developers here, Andrew?

Senator Bragg

Well, the biggest beneficiary Mark, are the big super funds. The big super funds have cleverly set up these shop fronts to launder the money. They get the money, $2.8 billion from round one of the HAFF, and they've done well.

Mark Levy

The other issue here I mean, you have a look at what's going on behind the scenes. It's seen bullying accusations come the way of the former chair, Carol Austin, who quit this month. It just sounds like a dog's breakfast.

Senator Bragg

Mate, it's in a world of pain. It's a terrible scheme. This actually demonstrates that Canberra is not very good at frontline service delivery. I mean, the States are much closer to these things, which is why historically States have run the programmes on public housing and the like. I think that's probably the way that we'll go with our own policy in the long run over the course of this Parliament, because Canberra is crap at doing things like this, which is why I've been comparing it to Pink Bats, because that was the Rudd government trying to get the federal government to do frontline service delivery.

Mark Levy

You rightly point out that resulted in a Royal Commission. Who knows what's going to happen with this Future Fund. What's your response to the Housing Minister, Clare O'Neil, who's playing down the significance of this and just saying, oh well, the auditor is just doing its job?

Senator Bragg

Well, the Housing Fund has lost its Chair, it's under audit, it's built no houses, in two years. It's now proposing to massively overpay in the course of twice or three times the average cost price of a house. So if she thinks that's all good, then she's a very relaxed Minister. I would be extremely concerned if I was the Minister and my flagship Housing Fund was sinking into the sand.

Mark Levy

All right, well, let's speak more broadly, right? Sure. You're the Shadow. If you were to be in government, you've got to fix the housing crisis. Is there a simple answer to this? And how would a Coalition Government fix the housing crisis?

Senator Bragg

Well, we would work with traders, developers, and builders to get the figures up. Now, under the last Liberal Government, we got about 200,000 houses a year on average in Australia. Now we're down to 170,000 a year under Labor. So, we've got to get up to about a quarter of a million. So we'd be working with them, working out how to make home building more economic. As you know, Mark, a lot of home builders and developers and traders are just finding it all too hard. That's where I'd be starting. We wouldn't have a great big Canberra bureaucracy.

Mark Levy

What about immigration?

Senator Bragg

Well, we'd want to make sure that our immigration programme is supported in our home building programme. We want to bring in tradies. Now, the CFMEU have told the Labor Party that they're not allowed to bring in foreign tradies because they won't join the union. So we wouldn't care about that. We'd be looking to recalibrate the migration numbers. And as you know, the numbers are pretty high at the moment, so we'd be looking at the overall number as well.

Mark Levy

All right. Well, we got to do something because this government goal of 1.2 million homes is just unrealistic. It ain't going to happen. So we'll wait and see what happens there. Well, I've got you, Senator. A big issue this morning that has been spoken about on Ben Fordham's programme, and I've been inundated with messages. This T-shirt that was worn by the Prime Minister, the Joy Division T-shirt. Your leader, Sussan Ley, demanding an apology. I know some of your colleagues have come out in particular from the Nationals and said, we don't care what he wears. We just worry about the job that he does. Where do you stand on it?

Senator Bragg

Well, mate, I think he's done the wrong thing because he's the Prime Minister of the country. He's the main ambassador. The Jewish community has been through hell in the last couple of years in Australia. I've been embarrassed at times to be an Australian to see the way this great community has been treated. I think he's got to be careful. He's the Prime Minister of the country. He's got to be aware of these things. He should reflect on the attire he wears as the Prime Minister of Australia.

Mark Levy

Do you agree with Sussan? He should apologise for wearing that shirt?

Senator Bragg

I mean, it's up to him to work out what he's going to wear. I don't think it was a smart idea.

Mark Levy

So, no apology needed?

Senator Bragg

Well, it's up to him. He shouldn't have worn the shirt.

Mark Levy

But if he's done the wrong thing, Senator, you got to apologise, I would have thought.

Senator Bragg

Well, I guess. But it's not for me to force apologies on other people. He should reflect that he is the leader of the nation. He's worn this T-shirt. It was the wrong thing to do. It's intensive, and he should reflect carefully on the attire that he wears.

Mark Levy

All right well, we'll wait and see what he's got to say about it. I'm sure someone will stop him on his next stop in his overseas tour, Airbus Albo. Senator, thanks for joining us, and good on you for shining a light on this housing future.



Senator Bragg

Thanks, Mark.

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[Ends]