Laura Jayes:
For more on this, I’m joined by Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg, who’s been a bit of ahead of the game when it comes to Bitcoin. I think, Andrew Bragg, that many treat this as kind of, you know, something that they’ll leave to the tech-heads. But Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general have really been part of the landscape for some time now. Do you think that will continue?
Andrew Bragg:
Well good morning, Laura. The reason that I am chairing an Inquiry into Bitcoin and into cryptocurrencies and digital assets is because we want to make sure that Australia stays ahead of the game. I mean, the reality is these products are out there now. People are using them and we need to make sure that we have the right policy and regulatory environment to be able to maintain our competitive advantage, but also to protect consumers.
Laura Jayes:
Indeed. So, what are looking at with this inquiry? Do you think Bitcoin needs to be regulated?
Andrew Bragg:
Well at the moment it’s all unregulated, so the transactions and the activity is happening. And the question for Australia is; what sort of policy framework should we have? For example, should we be licensing market-exchanges? Should we be licensing products? As a liberal government, Liberal party, we don’t like additional regulation but there may be a case for there to be some more regulation to drive the outcomes that we’re seeking.
Laura Jayes:
Where do you think that balance lies though, because isn’t the whole point of crypto is that it is deregulated? It’s at arm’s length from government.
Andrew Bragg:
Well I think we need to do the work over the next six months with the Committee, but certainly there are market participants that are saying the reason that we are being debanked, for example, which is where a digital asset business can no longer obtain banking services, is because there is a lack of policy sophistication in Australia relative to comparable markets. As in Canada and Singapore. So, if we want to be a-
Laura Jayes:
So, what are they doing in Canada and Singapore?
Andrew Bragg:
Well I mean they’re allowing retail customers, punters, to purchase things like managed funds which have Bitcoin and have cryptocurrencies in those funds. So that’s really people on main street being able to access exposure to those products quite easily, and in Australia that is much more difficult and challenging partly because there is a lack of regulation and policy. So, that’s why we’re doing the work.
Laura Jayes:
It’s so open to manipulation. I mean we’ve seen this week, Elon Musk sends a tweet and Bitcoin dives by about 30% and, you know, China compounded that. We explained at the start of the interview. Is part of the problem here is that cryptos at the moment are so open to market manipulation?
Andre Bragg:
Well I mean everything is open to market manipulation –
Laura Jayes:
Well we saw Gamestop didn’t we.
Andrew Bragg:
-as you’ve seen with the major banks and the bank bill swap rate and what not, there’s been a whole lot of activity the banks have undertaken overtime as the custodians of the financial sector or a large part of the financial sector, which has been unsavoury. So, I think we want to be thoughtful and cautious. There are people in the public sector and people in the finance sector who would like the status quo because it suits them. But the reality is this technology is out there. There are digital assets. People are using them. So, we need to have a thorough review of it and see what’s sort of policy Australia wants to have. If we want to be a tech and finance centre, my sense is this is going to be part of it.
Laura Jayes:
Yeah, interesting that you say that. So, do you think it has a long-term future because I guess many conservatives or traditionalists, you might call them, think that, you know, cryptocurrencies are just the domain of tech heads and criminals.
Andrew Bragg:
Well, I’m not sure about that. Look there is a strong vested interest in the banking and finance sector to keep the status quo in place, where the banks and the public sector sort of, you know, run currency. And we need to interrogate that to make sure that is the right thing for Australia, because when innovation happens the solution is not close the door on it.
Laura Jayes:
Yeah, indeed. I guess, a lot of people are probably scared of Bitcoin, investing in it, because, you know, it’s so volatile. But perhaps afraid of something that they don’t really understand. But now we’re starting to see this emergence of Bitcoin scams too. Is that something you’ve got an eye on?
Andrew Bragg:
Well we certainly wouldn’t make investment in anything compulsory. The question is, what is the policy frame you want to have to attract investment and then what is the policy frame you want to protect consumers. And you need to look at both sides of the Bitcoin, so to speak. So that’s the work the Committee will do. We’ll be calling for submissions now. We’re looking for advice from the market, and we’ll be look for advice from consumer advocates because we need to make sure that we get the balance right in our deliberation.
Laura Jayes:
Not that I’m asking you to give any kind of financial advice, but do people need to be really careful about investing in it at the moment?
Andrew Bragg:
Well I think people should be cautious about investing in anything. And I’ve always been of the view that people should seek proper licensed financial advice. I think financial advice is very expensive because of the large amount of regulation which is in place. But for people who follow this space closely, people would know that there has been gross maleficence in the financial advice space. And so there needed to be a lot more regulation to protect consumers. So, if people can afford it, they should seek financial advice. You can use your super to get some decent financial advice, and I do myself, that is a good thing to do. Get good financial advice.
Laura Jayes:
Indeed, well said. Well we’ll leave it there. Andrew Bragg, thanks so much. This is an area that’s elusive to many of us, so thanks for taking us through it.
Andrew Bragg:
Thanks Laura.
